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Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

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Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#601

Post by simonh »

emodendroket wrote: post #385
dantheman wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is awful - I'm glad you never had to deal with. It provides little revenue and causes a huge amount of hassle and makes living overseas way more difficult.

Perhaps the revenue is not very great but if there were a blanket exception I think you’d suddenly find a lot more people gaming then system to not technically be US residents and thereby escape large amounts of liability.

That's pretty easily dealt with through residency thresholds. We do this in the UK, counting people resident for tax purposes if they spend more than so many days in the UK in a given year. I would be very surprised if the US doesn't already do this to determine non-citizens tax status.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#602

Post by beezle »

bnralt wrote: post #411
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Only because of US laws. I have two citizenships, but one residency. U.S. citizenship carries extraterritorial benefits. For example, we're pretty good at getting our people out of thorny situations, even at great national expense. If someone isn't paying to support that, it makes sense to force a revocation decision.

Many Americans seem to believe that, but it doesn't actually seem to be the case. For instance, when Yemen was falling apart, countries like China, India, Pakistan, Russia, and Indonesia all worked hard to evacuate their citizens, many using their military to do so[1]. The U.S. response was to tell American citizens they were on their own[2]. The U.S. embassy even recommended that Americans seek assistance from India…

The US is also very good at issuing travel warnings that are very explicit about the risks [1] I am not aware of the DoS ever going from 'its all ok' to 'see ya, y'all on your own now!' Anyone that was in Yemen prior to 2/15 had (or should have) a very good idea of where things were going.

[1] https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/...

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#603

Post by 3327 »

academia_hack wrote: post #42

It's so irritating to be an American that has moved overseas. Basically the only country in the world that charges taxes on money you make and spend somewhere else, just because of where you were born. Thanks to IRS regulations, 90% of investment firms will just reject me outright rather than deal with the paperwork. Getting someone to help file my inordinately complex taxes costs thousands of dollars more than I act…

Nice summary 100%.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#604

Post by paulddraper »

a4a4a4a4 wrote: post #433
paulddraper wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US states do the same thing. States with income tax will tax you whether you work in the state, or you are resident in the state.

Or if you're in NY for too many days, even not for work, they'll tax you too :)

Or if you're remote but company HQ in NY.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#605

Post by BeetleB »

emodendroket wrote: post #582
BeetleB wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are not allowed to open financial accounts for investments in the country you are living in because they do not want to have information sent to the IRS, you'll think differently. I know at least one country that will not let you even open a bank account if you have a green card or US citizenship. Actually, even if you're a foreigner living in the US (student, H-1, etc), that country will not let you open a ba…

Which country is this?

I'm aware of restrictions in France and Pakistan from coworkers on H-1 visas from those countries. Note that both probably do provide a way to open it if you go through some lengthy "exceptions" process, but it wasn't worth the hassle.

Basically, ever since the IRS required you to report foreign accounts (2007 or 2008), some countries have made it harder for people based in the US to get accounts. They see it as an indirect means to collect intelligence by the US.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#606

Post by leppr »

mjevans wrote: post #563
Dracophoenix wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Protect by a world superpower military and diplomacy, That's the argument the British crown once made for taxation without representation. It wasn't very well-received. A country is obligated to protect its own borders and demand commensurate payment. I don't see a reason to pay for American military expansionism if I'm kept safe enough by my country of residence. Anything beyond that is wasted tax dollars or adven…

>>>>Protect by a world superpower military and diplomacy, >>That's the argument the British crown once made for taxation without representation. ... IIRC Those living outside of the US still have the right to cast votes for President, and are not compelled to pay non-federal taxes. An argument might be made for non-state citizens to at least have a single representative and senator they can vote for. >>>> (social pro…

> If you're also a US citizen, please vote to get this fixed.

Where/how can US citizens vote to modify the social security system?

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#607

Post by ElFitz »

emodendroket wrote: post #465
ElFitz wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "One of the worst" maybe if you're comparing to the EU, but definitely not in a wider global sense. Definitely. But comparing the benefits of US citizenship to that of, say, Venezuela or Tchad would be pointless, now, wouldn’t it?

Why would that be pointless?

Mostly because the gap in international political reach and leverage, respective economic situations and means are too huge for there to be a point.

Also because I suspect the population here to likely be mostly from Western countries. Cf dang’s comment[1] stating that 50% of the userbase is from the US

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25787770

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#608

Post by azinman2 »

junon wrote: post #596
azinman2 wrote: post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what's wrong with this? Personally I'm very happy to see it. The idea that you make tons and tons of money by what America has worked hard to offer you and then you want to skip town because of taxes? Taxes that help pay for all the advantages that got you that wealth in the first place? Good for Congress for trying to prevent this.

Ehhh not sure about that. America doesn't have high taxes compared to many other places to live. This isn't as clear cut as I think you think it is.

Then you’re refuting the basic premise of the article, which is that the ultra wealthy want to avoid taxes.

Why else would Eric Schmidt want to become a citizen of Cyprus, which then also allows him to live elsewhere in the EU? It’s certainly isn’t to end up laying more in taxes than he would in the US.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#609

Post by paulddraper »

mgbmtl wrote: post #128
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's so irritating to be an American that has moved overseas. Basically the only country in the world that charges taxes on money you make and spend somewhere else, just because of where you were born. This is exactly why these people are renouncing US citizenship: They’re living overseas as citizens of another country and, like anyone rich or poor, don’t want to be paying taxes to a country they aren’t living in.…

> surrendering US citizenship is a logical choice Only because of US laws. I have two citizenships, but one residency. In most Western countries, being a resident is associated with healthcare and pension, so having one residency is logical.

> In most Western countries, being a resident is associated with healthcare and pension

Then that's the difference.

American citizens can collect Social Security while residing in foreign countries. Same with VA benefits.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#610

Post by queuebert »

dbetteridge wrote: post #164
EE84M3i wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, I seem to recall hearing Australians also have complicated rules about being an "Australian resident for tax purposes" that is not the same as an Australian resident for other purposes, especially when you don't have Permanent Residence/Green Card and are on a time-limited visa (even if it's years long). So they don't technically fall into the "America and Eritrea" bad list, but still tax many Australians abroad…

Not too bad really for us overseas Australians. If you took out a HECS (0% interest, indexed to inflation) loan for university study you still need to file taxes when resident overseas and continue making payments if you earn over the threshold. If you are resident in Australia more then 6mths of the year you must complete an Australian tax return, but for most people that involves logging in around september and che…

That sounds nice. The tax preparation lobby in the US has so far prevented the IRS from pre-filling our tax returns.
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