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Senators move to exempt Bitcoin, crypto miners from proposed U.S. tax rules

marketwatch.com

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Re: Senators move to exempt Bitcoin, crypto miners from proposed U.S. tax rules

#191

Post by IlliOnato »

cwkoss wrote: post #145
awrence wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The math on the PoW energy FUD just doesn't check out. - At current levels, bitcoin uses very roughly 0.1% of global electricity but electricity only represents 25% of fossil fuels emissions so current PoW contribution to global emissions = 0.025%, ie a rounding error. This issue is currently a total red herring. Now let's project into the future. - bitcoin total addressable market cap if it took over the entire glob…

> eliminating the energy spent on maintaining the fiat system which is easily more than 1.5% of global emissions Absolutely. It's impossible to accurately account for, but a significant part of why the US Military Industrial Complex is so over-provisioned is to maintain dollar hegemony. 800 international US military bases, the Iraq war, invasion of Libya, force projection exercises by the navy, etc. Being the world p…

[quote]if the dollar wasn't the world reserve currency there would be less need and funds for maintaining such a bloated amount of power[/quote]

Citation needed.

You really think that other countries, and businesses and individuals in these countries store their savings and denominate their contracts in US dollars at gunpoint?

Ridiculous.

Re: Senators move to exempt Bitcoin, crypto miners from proposed U.S. tax rules

#192

Post by [deleted] »

jazzyjackson wrote: post #58
dougSF70 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess that is the worry of any government: money that could fuel the economy gets spirited away into dubious Crypto ventures - e.g. Dogecoin. BTC might be old news but it isn't a deliberate scam.

Thankfully no one has yet invented a crypto where you receive coins by proving you destroyed physical currency - USD spent on a crypto scam is still circulated through the economy. If anything, according to the greater fool theory, crypto transfers USD from the more gullible to the more manipulative, just as god intended.

[deleted]

Re: Senators move to exempt Bitcoin, crypto miners from proposed U.S. tax rules

#193

Post by robbedpeter »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #150
cwkoss wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also note that this crypto tax-reporting provision was slid into a huge bipartisan infrastructure deal. It really never should have been included in this legislation in the first place. Exempting actors in the crypto space who facillitate crypto usage without ever having custodial control of the funds makes a lot of sense. (Just like envelope manufacturers shouldn't have to register as money transmitters because peop…

> this crypto tax provision was slid into a huge bipartisan infrastructure deal. It really never should have been included in this legislation in the first place. Why not? The infrastructure is being paid for in part by this tax. They're fundamentally linked.

These type of riders in must-pass omnibus bills are abominations.

Re: Senators move to exempt Bitcoin, crypto miners from proposed U.S. tax rules

#194

Post by idiotsecant »

snikeris wrote: post #185
godelski wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cost of electricity (coupled with the rewards and cost of hardware) changes how profitable mining is. The more profitable the more players. The more players the more transaction throughput. This is exactly why miners have bought powerplants and why they operate in locations with cheap electricity, because it makes it more profitable for them. Bitcoin mining is directly related to the cost of electricity. That sai…

It's the same transaction throughput regardless of the number of miners.

Same transaction throughput, but not same security.

Re: Senators move to exempt Bitcoin, crypto miners from proposed U.S. tax rules

#195

Post by saalweachter »

kelnos wrote: post #115
dougSF70 wrote: post #2

Obviously HN community is down on crypto. This exemption is a sign that Bitcoin is getting closer to the mainstream of finance. Like most flanker-moves, Governments should be incorporating it in to their tax policies rather than shunning it. Cannabis is a good proxy, states can keep it illegal and not make tax revenue or they can legalize it, control it and tax it. The feds should do the same. Same for crypto, keepin…

I'm confused about your position on this, though: the amendment in question ensures certain cryptocurrency-related activities won't be taxed. I agree that we shouldn't be banning this sort of thing, but if people want to throw electricity at it in ways that I consider a huge waste of resources, I'd really like to see that taxed better. And not in a regressive way that makes every electricity user pay more. > Obviousl…

> ... please remember that the HN community is not homogeneous, and various people have very different (and strong) opinions on many things.

Honestly I'm not sure I consider HN a "community" in the same way I consider other online ... communities, communities.

With notably rare exceptions you don't have a lot of sharing of personal milestones, and while you might occasionally "recognize" a poster (and we have a few "famous" ones) it's much easier to deal with each comment as a stand-alone statement without any provenance.

Even meta-discussion about the nature of HN like this seems a bit gauche and is discouraged.

Re: Senators move to exempt Bitcoin, crypto miners from proposed U.S. tax rules

#196

Post by nybble41 »

drcode wrote: post #43
jondwillis wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, swap to a privacy token and back.

Just want to point out it's not quite that easy: If you convert 1.24 (or whatever) bitcoins into zcash/monero/etc and then 1.24 right back into bitcoins, everyone will know those transactions were likely connected.

I should think that it would be obvious that you don't put in 1.24 BTC and then take out 1.24 BTC later. Someone trying to hide the source of their funds via a mixer or Monero or whatever would put in 1.24 BTC and take out 1 BTC + 0.2 BTC + 2*(0.02 BTC) (or some other set of common denominations) in separate transactions to distinct BTC wallets, taking steps to ensure that these transactions can't be correlated with each other by IP address, time, etc. They want to hide the withdrawals in a sea of indistinguishable, uniform transactions; moving a unique, traceable quantity all at once would be a clear red flag. The principle is hardly obscure; it's exactly the same as the popular image of criminals conducting business with suitcases full of unmarked $20 bills. They use $20 bills because they're commonplace, not because they're more convenient than $50 or $100 bills.

Re: Senators move to exempt Bitcoin, crypto miners from proposed U.S. tax rules

#197

Post by tedunangst »

overtonwhy wrote: post #88
sputknick wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ETH PoS mainnet transition is underway and will be completed early 2022. With this holders of ETH will be able to earn fees from transactions, just by running an application on their standard normal computer. The only encouragement you need to move off of POW is profit motive.

Haven't they been saying POS will be "ready soon" for years? Seems like maybe vaporware used for hype? "The Ethereum proof of stake date has been set for December 1, 2020. While the proof of stake Ethereum date was originally set for January 2020, this deadline was missed." https://www.exodus.com/blog/ethereum-proof-of-stake-date/

There's a button you can click to stake ethereum on Coinbase, which seems a bit past the vapor stage.

Re: Senators move to exempt Bitcoin, crypto miners from proposed U.S. tax rules

#198

Post by nyghtly »

This headline might as well be click bait.

It's important to remember that this is a proposed amendment. It won't pass unless the infrastructure gang supports it. And it's very unlikely that they will support it, because that would mean that the bill isn't fully funded. Not being funded would kill the bill, because the Republicans who support it are demanding full funding.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/08/03/senate-bipartisan-i...

Re: Senators move to exempt Bitcoin, crypto miners from proposed U.S. tax rules

#199

Post by TigeriusKirk »

TigeriusKirk wrote: post #112
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems rather unprecedented that there are currently US citizens who are billionaires because of their crypto holdings, Perhaps, but it’s not as common as it sounds. Maybe there are people out there who invested $33,000 into Bitcoin when it was $1 and then didn’t sell a single penny as it rose and crashed multiple times, but the number of people achieving billionaire status without starting out with tens of milli…

There aren't a huge number of crypto billionaires (though your calculations miss those who rode other crypto waves with their bitcoin profits), but there are a decent number of people in the upper 10-figure lower 11 figure range. Outside of Satoshi, the number of those people who are anonymous at a governmental level has got to be quite small.

Oops, meant 8-9 figure range. Too many zeroes. $50+ million.

Re: Senators move to exempt Bitcoin, crypto miners from proposed U.S. tax rules

#200

Post by tedunangst »

purple_ferret wrote: post #93

> The changes will lead to the bill raising $5.2 billion less than the $28 billion envisaged by the initial legislation, according to a Politico report citing the Joint Committee on Taxation. How do they come to this conclusion since taxes are still owed? Just that they expect about 5 billion in tax evasion from this?

They're all made up numbers that exist only to get the bill passed.
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