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How a fake network pushes pro-China propaganda

bbc.co.uk

101–110 of 159 posts

Re: How a fake network pushes pro-China propaganda

#101
post #43

Now the question is are most of the comments on this thread examples or are they the social conditioned response of Chinese citizens abroad showing the flag. It can get pretty creepy how aggressive students - for example - get supporting their government. That flash mob behavior isn't as effective as the Russian's conflict stoking troll farms, but man does it drown out conversation, and god help you if you run into i…

Which comments specifically? I've never seen anything that looks like wumao on HN. On reddit theyre usually pretty obvious.

You know, I was going to go and link the comments that made me post that in the first place but they seem to have been eaten or buried while I was asleep (or seemed worse because it was 3 in the morning)

But! For less extreme examples, check out the discussion of the occupation of Tibet that spontaneously generated under my first comment and:

> Meanwhile the BBC pushes anti-China propaganda in plain sight.

> I wonder how it stacks up to the fake network pushing anti-China propaganda.

> Brought to you by the 5 eyes propaganda machine: Bullshit Broadcasting Corporation

> I find using the term “concentration camp” for something that resembles a youth correctional facility somewhat dishonest.

Re: How a fake network pushes pro-China propaganda

#103

Now the question is are most of the comments on this thread examples or are they the social conditioned response of Chinese citizens abroad showing the flag. It can get pretty creepy how aggressive students - for example - get supporting their government. That flash mob behavior isn't as effective as the Russian's conflict stoking troll farms, but man does it drown out conversation, and god help you if you run into i…

Just post something about india and trolls from that country will similarly pop up. I dont understand what is it with failing countries and whitewashing their internet image using trolls. Just fix your bloody and stop spamming.

Re: How a fake network pushes pro-China propaganda

#104

Now the question is are most of the comments on this thread examples or are they the social conditioned response of Chinese citizens abroad showing the flag. It can get pretty creepy how aggressive students - for example - get supporting their government. That flash mob behavior isn't as effective as the Russian's conflict stoking troll farms, but man does it drown out conversation, and god help you if you run into i…

Why should Westerners care about a "sprawling network of more than 350 fake social media profiles" when our own governments have been lying to us and spewing propaganda about almost everything of importance for DECADES? See my comment about GCHQ's JTRIG unit elsewhere on this page. Western propaganda campaigns are often a prelude to war. And they usually deploy several orders of magnitude more assets than "350 fake s…

Such an excellent example of whataboutism! You have no interest in accepting any BBC version of events because you prefer comfortable confirmation bias from blogs and the twitterati?

Re: How a fake network pushes pro-China propaganda

#106

I find it amusing how the ex president of USA is banned from social media, while Chinese propaganda is left mostly untouched.

At this point I’m starting to warm to the Chinese system. At least the Han aren’t made to be guilty of the original sin of being White.

I don’t know what to call the US system we have now, but can’t say I’m a fan.

Re: How a fake network pushes pro-China propaganda

#107

Now the question is are most of the comments on this thread examples or are they the social conditioned response of Chinese citizens abroad showing the flag. It can get pretty creepy how aggressive students - for example - get supporting their government. That flash mob behavior isn't as effective as the Russian's conflict stoking troll farms, but man does it drown out conversation, and god help you if you run into i…

Yeah I remember I had a colleague, a Chinese student, very nice person, we were going along nicely, until one day I mentioned the Dalai Lama, and he exploded. It seems like the brainwashing was very successful - he believed that the DL was a monster, killer, some demonic being aiming at the destruction of China and so on. I couldn't believe my ears. This person seemed otherwise completely normal.

>brainwashing was very successful

TBH this is as much your brainwashing as your colleagues. 14th DL was part of CIA Tibetan program. You mentioned serf/feudalism, he was old enough to perpetuate before exile. Current Dalai Lama was literally a killer who tried to undermine PRC sovereignty. This is like when mainstream America suddenly found out Christopher Columbus was kind of a monster, because previously it was simply not taught / common knowledge.

Just like your claim in another comment that China said they would nuke Japan. Some random PRC netizen posted it and got popular, it's not an official CCP foreign policy position as misreported from many western media. Don't get me wrong, Chinese nationalists would LOVE to nuke Japan if they came to the defense of Taiwan, which to PRC = if a previous invader who committed horrible atrocities decides to meddle militarily in the ongoing Chinese civil war. It's completely expected nationalism based on historic grievances. CCP isn't fanning anti-Japanese flames this hard, frequently they have to rein nationalists in, especially when it comes to Japanese drama. BTW you'll find South Korean comments about nuking Japan as well. Except western propaganda doesn't deliberately conflate that with SK foreign policy.

>This person seemed otherwise completely normal.

This gets said so frequently, yet never with any self reflection. Maybe the Chinese colleague (and friend / girlfriend / wife), typically very educated, who likely speaks both languages, has lived in both cultures, and has dual perspectives, is not the one that experienced very successful brainwashing. Growing up in a society with free press doesn't automatically make one more informed. Almost always, it's not the Chinese person with information deficit. They're exposed to both sides of the story.

Re: How a fake network pushes pro-China propaganda

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are the two comments below yours: https://i.imgur.com/o8c9ZPm.png While most efforts by the Chinese government to distort and degrade online communications have been focused domestically: https://www.propublica.org/article/leaked-documents-show-how... There is evidence they are starting to turn their guns outward: https://www.cfr.org/blog/chinas-internet-trolls-go-global But there is an uncomfortable truth behi…

Yes, and this is something to worry about, not some small network. Recently China said they would nuke Japan time after time if they decide to protect Taiwan against Chinese invasion. I'm afraid many ordinary Chinese citizens would be in favor of this decision because they simply believe their government.

[deleted]

Re: How a fake network pushes pro-China propaganda

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are the two comments below yours: https://i.imgur.com/o8c9ZPm.png While most efforts by the Chinese government to distort and degrade online communications have been focused domestically: https://www.propublica.org/article/leaked-documents-show-how... There is evidence they are starting to turn their guns outward: https://www.cfr.org/blog/chinas-internet-trolls-go-global But there is an uncomfortable truth behi…

Yes, and this is something to worry about, not some small network. Recently China said they would nuke Japan time after time if they decide to protect Taiwan against Chinese invasion. I'm afraid many ordinary Chinese citizens would be in favor of this decision because they simply believe their government.

Or the recent attack on foreign media in China: https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202107/1229947.shtml

When NYT/WSJ/BBC etc weren't blocked in China, they had incredible high trust #'s. Now the government says they are bad (after blocking them), the public all falls in line with that opinion.

I worry about what the Chinese government will do when they know they can make or remake public opinion so easily and effectively.

Re: How a fake network pushes pro-China propaganda

#110
post #12

[flagged]

These are the two comments below yours: https://i.imgur.com/o8c9ZPm.png While most efforts by the Chinese government to distort and degrade online communications have been focused domestically: https://www.propublica.org/article/leaked-documents-show-how... There is evidence they are starting to turn their guns outward: https://www.cfr.org/blog/chinas-internet-trolls-go-global But there is an uncomfortable truth behi…

>turn their guns outward

Different kinds of calibre guns, so far PRC has not brought out the big ones nor firing with intent to kill. PRC foreign propaganda is still overwhelmingly boring "tell china story well", distinctively different from Russian troll farms. They're fundamentally different attack vectors. Both also influence diaspora, as does every country. There's just more Chinese abroad with perspective of both systems, and frankly the western narrative is frequently blatantly misinformed that most don't see defending the homeland as promoting illiberalism. Most are shocked at how quickly liberal minds can be brainwashed despite free media. Still, actual current day analysis shows PRC is doing very little relative to other players contrary to these headlines. Maybe still developing capabilities, or keeping options in reserve.

>counter-measures

IMO this is just an asymmetry between liberal and illiberal systems that can't be bridged without the former adopting tools from the latter - which by all accounts is happening, i.e. the China Initiative is Mccarthyism / red scare redux. Kill chicken to scare monkey works everywhere. Manufactured consent like this article overblowing actual state of PRC influence ops which is continuation of coordinated anti-China reporting since Trump. As always fight propaganda with propaganda, but ultimately, diaspora / immigrants in western countries have freedom to root for their homeland. This includes pro-CCP PRC nationals, and even the ones who renounce PRC citizenship after naturalization.

>As far as coordinated pro-CCP behavior on HN

My general feeling of the "coordinated pro-CCP" phenomenon is that there are many pro-China diaspora in western platforms whose threshold for engaging anti-China pieces is to downvote and move on. Some spaces (like tech) have more Chinese than baseline, so you'd expect to see the effect multiplied. IMO most do it for themselves for tribalism, which is natural behaviour.

I don't subscribe that there's anything ironic about PRC nationalists hoping over GFC to "enjoy" free speech. VPN access is cheap, use not strictly enforced, accessing western internet is not some verboten activity like many westerners envisions it to be, it's entertainment. It's like using VPN to circumvent geofenced media, except for nationalists who like to troll. Reality is there's much more Chinese with English fluency and hopping the GFC is much easier than vice versa. The amount of westerners who have mandarin fluency and ability to comment on weibo is miniscule. And they don't need to since lots of pro-China diaspora / tankies on western platforms to troll, whereas Chinese nationals have to actively seek westerners over GFC to troll. VPN is just a premium subscription to participate in another cultural war. Culture wars are sad.

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