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Apple plans to scan US iPhones for child abuse imagery

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Re: Apple plans to scan US iPhones for child abuse imagery

#81

Post by seph-reed »

I'm too old for this, but I really wonder what it's going to be like for high-school kids and nudes 10 years on.

I mean, if you get a really good nude from someone you're going to want to keep it. But for how long? Is there now a social rule of how long to keep nudes for? Is 21 too old, and you should delete them? What if you're still with the person?

Personally, I'm glad I don't have to figure it out, but teens sending each-other nudes just has all sorts of confusing ethical quandries to it.

Re: Apple plans to scan US iPhones for child abuse imagery

#82

Post by threatofrain »

Ancapistani wrote: post #36
zug_zug wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EDIT: It appears they are using perceptual hashes, which are likely much more prone to collisions. The following math does NOT apply to the tech Apple is using. >> I mean, who's to say that my hash is actually what they think it is... Let's do the math. assume they are using a UUID for the hash. "For example, the number of random version-4 UUIDs which need to be generated in order to have a 50% probability of at leas…

> "The odds of This number is equivalent to generating 1 billion UUIDs per second for about 85 years." If we're talking about random files, sure. What if the files are intentionally created to match the desired hash? The malicious actor doing this could be a private party intending to disrupt your life, but it could also be law enforcement as a means of gaining access to your device when it would otherwise require a…

Or what if you're a researcher who has downloaded a collection of these assets? Wouldn't you be a very high signal hit, beyond even actual perpetrators of crime? Would you need the protection of an umbrella organization to do research? Or register with the government perhaps?

Re: Apple plans to scan US iPhones for child abuse imagery

#83

Post by perryizgr8 »

throwaway287391 wrote: post #46

> Once a certain number of photos are marked as suspect, Apple will enable all the suspect photos to be decrypted and, if apparently illegal, passed on to the relevant authorities. Haven't Apple previously claimed that their encryption works such that Apple themselves can't decrypt it no matter what? (IIRC this came up during the San Bernadino attack when the FBI requested that Apple decrypt/unlock a suspect's iPhone…

> Apple themselves can't decrypt it no matter what?

Apple has root on every iPhone. They can do whatever they want by pushing whatever code they like to any iphone.

Re: Apple plans to scan US iPhones for child abuse imagery

#84

Post by Reason077 »

Causality1 wrote: post #37
sebzim4500 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if an attacker has intentionally produced an image with the same hash as a well known blacklisted image? Then they could send you the new image and fuck up your life.

Hell, what if you were browsing a site like Facebook or Imgur or Reddit, saw an abuse image, reported it, but it still lives in your phone's browser cache?

I would assume those sites are already using the same, or similar, algorithms/hashes to detect blacklisted images?

Re: Apple plans to scan US iPhones for child abuse imagery

#85

Post by [deleted] »

judge2020 wrote: post #66
barbazoo wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are using a library of human verified images to compare the hashes I didn't get that from the article, could you point to a source on this?

Images are submitted by over 1400 organizations[0] like the FBI and NCMEC, although the inner-workings of the database aren’t public and I can’t find a source or confirmation of every image actually being human-verified. The closest is how the "Child Victim Identification Program" helps identify victims in these images. 0: https://www.missingkids.org/theissues/csam#:~:text=Electroni... (ctrl-f "1,400")

[deleted]

Re: Apple plans to scan US iPhones for child abuse imagery

#86

Post by Macha »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #74
Ancapistani wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "The odds of This number is equivalent to generating 1 billion UUIDs per second for about 85 years." If we're talking about random files, sure. What if the files are intentionally created to match the desired hash? The malicious actor doing this could be a private party intending to disrupt your life, but it could also be law enforcement as a means of gaining access to your device when it would otherwise require a…

Couldn't someone that motivated come up with a dozen other ways to frame someone? This seems a little alarmist to me.

They could come up with a dozen other ways apart from swatting too, but swatting still happens and we generally agree that it's a problem where actions should be taken. Political debates over whether that means the police should act in a less militarised fashion, or harsher sentences for culprits are ongoing, but cutting down on avenues for life ruining abuse is generally supported.

So why would we open up new ones?

Re: Apple plans to scan US iPhones for child abuse imagery

#87

Post by vsareto »

1-6 wrote: post #23
partiallypro wrote: post #14

I really don't see how this is going to end well, there could be perfectly innocent photos on someone's phone of their own children doing perfectly normal things that kids do. Like a kid running butt naked around the house, or a photo of something like a rash that is sent to a nurse friend for advice on what it is etc. I'm all for protecting children from being abused, but how are they going to filter what is normal…

What will happen is that criminals who actually had bad intent will move off of the platform and the ones who get the brunt of the blame are the innocent who had no ill intent.

Fairly sure criminals can't prove the efficient market hypothesis either. You still want to catch the dumb ones.

Re: Apple plans to scan US iPhones for child abuse imagery

#88

Post by flibble12345 »

so you’ll be able to ruin someone’s life by sending them a live photo where one frame has child abuse. i find the law enforcement part of these well intentioned anti child abuse initiatives to be absolutely terrifying because the standard is not that you were proven to have been a party to child abuse but that an offending file was found on your device.

Re: Apple plans to scan US iPhones for child abuse imagery

#89

Post by taway1213sadf »

temp8964 wrote: post #27
partiallypro wrote: post #14

I really don't see how this is going to end well, there could be perfectly innocent photos on someone's phone of their own children doing perfectly normal things that kids do. Like a kid running butt naked around the house, or a photo of something like a rash that is sent to a nurse friend for advice on what it is etc. I'm all for protecting children from being abused, but how are they going to filter what is normal…

I am sure, presumbly in a sane world, computer scanning is only the early stage of the process, human will be invovled to make final judgements and decisions.

Remember the US No Fly List? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Fly_List

The list ballooned to over a million names, then required an ACLU lawsuit until humans became involved and a review process was initiated.

As long as the majority of Americans dont feel burdened by something, dont expect anything logical to happen.

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