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Senators move to exempt Bitcoin, crypto miners from proposed U.S. tax rules

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Re: Senators move to exempt Bitcoin, crypto miners from proposed U.S. tax rules

#51

Post by spinax »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #10
Guest42 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, I’ll have to research that. It seems like something that would take a long time to deploy.

It's been in the works for years. https://www.pymnts.com/news/faster-payments/2021/five-banks-... https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2020/08/31/fednow-the-federa...

Thanks for sharing, I as well didn't know about this. I've enrolled/used Zelle (via my bank app) and it's just a travesty of usability to me, after awhile I ditched it (and I don't hear a lot in the news about Zelle these days).

What's your hot take on this new FedNow system vs. what Zelle tries to achieve via ACH? Do you think it'll be more "Venmo-like" (low friction) or will it end up a usability mess due to regulation requirements?

Re: Senators move to exempt Bitcoin, crypto miners from proposed U.S. tax rules

#52

Post by sputknick »

Tepix wrote: post #46
danielvf wrote: post #22

Finally found the text of the amendment: https://www.finance.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Wyden%20Lummis%... The amendment is short and explicitly notes that that the following categories do not count as brokers: (A) validating distributed ledger transactions (B) selling hardware or software for which the sole function is to permit a person to control private keys which are used for accessing digital assets on a distribu…

I guess we need a proper CO2 tax to encourage better technology than proof of work

ETH PoS mainnet transition is underway and will be completed early 2022. With this holders of ETH will be able to earn fees from transactions, just by running an application on their standard normal computer. The only encouragement you need to move off of POW is profit motive.

Re: Senators move to exempt Bitcoin, crypto miners from proposed U.S. tax rules

#53

Post by nprz »

khuey wrote: post #31
nprz wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why are ransomware hackers never prosecuted?

Because they live and operate in jurisdictions without extradition treaties.

So they might as well just ask for their ransom via a wire transfer or paypal? Since their identity will be known anyway.

Re: Senators move to exempt Bitcoin, crypto miners from proposed U.S. tax rules

#54

Post by nprz »

amalcon wrote: post #32
nprz wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why are ransomware hackers never prosecuted?

Because they typically operate out of jurisdictions that don't feel like prosecuting them.

Why not just ask for a paypal or a wire transfer then? If they don't care about revealing their identity?

Re: Senators move to exempt Bitcoin, crypto miners from proposed U.S. tax rules

#55

Post by drcode »

ghostbrainalpha wrote: post #26
drcode wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, if you don't use mixers

Side question: How difficult is it to use a mixer? If you have the tech skills to mine bitcoin is it trivial to find and use a mixer, or is it something requiring more specific expertise?

Not too difficult, though I've never done it so can't say for sure.

Re: Senators move to exempt Bitcoin, crypto miners from proposed U.S. tax rules

#56

Post by ComodoHacker »

Tepix wrote: post #46
danielvf wrote: post #22

Finally found the text of the amendment: https://www.finance.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Wyden%20Lummis%... The amendment is short and explicitly notes that that the following categories do not count as brokers: (A) validating distributed ledger transactions (B) selling hardware or software for which the sole function is to permit a person to control private keys which are used for accessing digital assets on a distribu…

I guess we need a proper CO2 tax to encourage better technology than proof of work

This would just increase the cost of electricity and thus the cost of living for everybody, and won't affect crypto miners much.

Re: Senators move to exempt Bitcoin, crypto miners from proposed U.S. tax rules

#57

Post by thesausageking »

drcode wrote: post #4

It seems rather unprecedented that there are currently US citizens who are billionaires because of their crypto holdings, without the government having any insight into precisely who these people are. It seems like eventually the government is going to push for more onerous reporting laws to return to the usual equilibrium, where the government has at least some basic idea regarding who owns what (which I think they…

It's very unlikely there are US citizens in the US who are Bitcoin billionaires and have not reported it and paid taxes to the government. Unless you're planning to flee the country, at some point the IRS will catch up with you. Remember that Bitcoin is an open, public ledger of every transaction. If someone is a billionaire, paying capital gains taxes is worth their freedom without a doubt.

Re: Senators move to exempt Bitcoin, crypto miners from proposed U.S. tax rules

#58

Post by jazzyjackson »

dougSF70 wrote: post #49
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the point I was trying to make is that Bitcoin is beyond the tipping point It’s no longer about Bitcoin. It’s about alternative asset classes. I think the new ventures in the crypto space have realized that BTC is old news and that the real money is in creating endless new crypto assets and ventures.

I guess that is the worry of any government: money that could fuel the economy gets spirited away into dubious Crypto ventures - e.g. Dogecoin. BTC might be old news but it isn't a deliberate scam.

Thankfully no one has yet invented a crypto where you receive coins by proving you destroyed physical currency - USD spent on a crypto scam is still circulated through the economy. If anything, according to the greater fool theory, crypto transfers USD from the more gullible to the more manipulative, just as god intended.

Re: Senators move to exempt Bitcoin, crypto miners from proposed U.S. tax rules

#59

Post by toomuchtodo »

spinax wrote: post #51
toomuchtodo wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's been in the works for years. https://www.pymnts.com/news/faster-payments/2021/five-banks-... https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2020/08/31/fednow-the-federa...

Thanks for sharing, I as well didn't know about this. I've enrolled/used Zelle (via my bank app) and it's just a travesty of usability to me, after awhile I ditched it (and I don't hear a lot in the news about Zelle these days). What's your hot take on this new FedNow system vs. what Zelle tries to achieve via ACH? Do you think it'll be more "Venmo-like" (low friction) or will it end up a usability mess due to regula…

Zelle is owned by a consortium of the largest US banks [1], and does much more volume than Venmo (because its built into the UX of those participating in Zelle's real time payment network [2]). Congress strongly encouraged the Fed to develop FedNow to prevent Zelle from keeping smaller banks out of instant payment infra. FedNow will eventually replace the ACH system.

Hot take: banks being banks, they'll crowd out fintechs because fintechs aren't chartered banks regardless of the UX (which is why Bancorp Bank is the underlying for so many fintechs).

[1] https://techcrunch.com/2017/06/12/zelle-the-real-time-venmo-...

[2] https://www.zellepay.com/get-started

Re: Senators move to exempt Bitcoin, crypto miners from proposed U.S. tax rules

#60

Post by thehappypm »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #6
Guest42 wrote: post #3

Sidetopic, but I am rather disappointed that Venmo has been pressuring me via email to embrace crypto and imagine behind the scenes they own however much, trades only get executed internally, and they do their best to extract transaction fees. To me this is the antithesis of what the crypto community was looking to stand for in terms of privacy and independence from traditional banking systems.

Venmo is pushing crypto hard because Instant Payments are coming down the pipeline from the Fed in the next 18 months (already in beta testing with a handful of smaller banks, they're ahead of schedule based on my reading of the roadmap), and that kills Venmo (and Paypal to a lesser extend) if they don't have something to pivot to. That's what you're seeing Visa, Paypal, and others attempt to go upmarket (business pa…

Venmo's core value right now is that it's ubiquitous. Everyone has a Venmo account and everyone trusts it. I paid an electrician through it yesterday -- no new Fed tech is going to replace it overnight, just like Zelle didn't kill it either.
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