Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#591

Post by bississippi » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 3:23 PM UTC

Been scanning the answers for a solution, I am 100% on Apple ecosystem and I am all for protecting little children but as others have pointed out nothing is stopping them from colluding with the government in future to say scan for political dissent: - weaponizing memes against politicians as “hate speech” - memes against government suppressing dissent - and we can look what happened to Uighurs

Can Samsung phones that are de-googled work ? I am specifically interested in a new phone that Samsung launches, can it be degoogled ?

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#592

Post by amelius » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 3:23 PM UTC

lijogdfljk wrote: post #551

Nullabillity wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most other manufacturers aren't in the business of pushing their own OS.

Fwiw, Apple's incentive seems to be hardware from the outside more than Software, imo. They tend to sell the hardware by the software for a lot of people, but given that they're so concerned with keeping their software on their hardware i suspect they don't have much reason to push their software over your software. What would concern me is if we see a big revenue stream from their software. Then i'd question them no…

Are you kidding? After getting a taste of the revenue-potential of software in the App Store, it is inevitable that Apple wants more of it.

In fact, I predict that Apple will at one point start selling software as a subscription, like SaaS. Other OSes don't fit in that model.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#593

Post by protomyth » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 3:24 PM UTC

So, the Chinese government could force Apple to add the hash for the Tienanmen Square tank man picture and find it on all iPhones?

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#594

Post by setpatchaddress » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 3:28 PM UTC

williamscales wrote: post #552

hprotagonist wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Perhaps heed the warnings? And then take what actions, exactly? “Guys this is trouble” is …fine, but without “and we should therefore do”, it’s just kind of spitting into the wind.

> And then take what actions, exactly? Don’t buy or use their products.

Unrealistic. My non-tech family and friends don’t care about this, and I can’t make them care. They don’t understand why it’s a problem; they agree with the motive and don’t understand that it’s not actually a solvable problem. It’s not totally dissimilar to the crypto backdoor problem. Normies think it’s great for only the feds to break encryption. Doesn’t work that way, but you can’t explain why to someone who doesn’t want to know.

The only progress for things like this comes at the political level, through pressure on politicians or corporations. That’s where you should be spending effort if this sort of thing matters to you.

A few Linux nerds buying some fantasy spook-free glibertarian phone will not make a dent in the problem.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#595

Post by browningstreet » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 3:31 PM UTC

stackedinserter wrote: post #571

snarf21 wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great, so what's the solution? What are you doing to fix it? Do you roll your own silicon? Do you grow your own food (we have no idea what someone could be putting in it)? Are you completely off-grid? Or are you as completely dependent on society writ large as everyone else? Making holier than thou comments about everyone else being sheep isn't helpful or thought provoking. Offer an alternative if it is a bad one (lo…

The solution won't be technological, it will be in realm of laws and regulations. We are weak peasants and don't have any power over big tech, but we can change legal environment for them. IANAL but we (via our elected representatives) can push a law that prohibit restrictions on execution of users' code on their own devices. Or we can split app stores from vendors and obligate them to provide access to third-party s…

Lawmakers are more likely to enforce the direction this discussion is objecting to.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#596

Post by gabi32 » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 3:33 PM UTC

saurik wrote: post #237

a-dub wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

do you still get patches via google play services?

With non-stock (assuming not jailbroken but just a totally different operating system) I think (I might be wrong... I should know for sure but I awkwardly don't) you aren't even allowed to use Google Play Services at all?

You are allowed to use Google services. There is even an alternative called microG which is compatible with apps requiring Google serivices but it sends "fake" data to Google.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#597

Post by aethertron » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 3:33 PM UTC

salawat wrote: post #537

aethertron wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe cropped photos, or innocent frames from videos containing abuse? Not sure what GP is referring to.

I am reminded of an infamous couch and pool that are notorious for appearing in many adult productions... Possibly stock footage of a production room or repeating prop intended for being subsampled for so that multiple or repeated works by the same person or group can be flagged. I recall a person of interest was arrested after of all things posting a completely benign YouTube tutorial video. My thought at the time w…

Who knows what that code blob is really doing? It's cop spyware. Sometimes cops plant evidence. Maybe courts shouldn't trust it.

In principle, the OS environment could be made independently auditable - keeping undeleteable signed logs.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#598

Post by kop316 » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 3:34 PM UTC

snarf21 wrote: post #500

keyme wrote: post #221

Dear humans, 1) You willingly delegated the decision of what code is allowed to run on your devices to the manufacturer (2009). Smart voices warned you of today's present even then. 2) You willingly got yourself irrevocably vendor-locked by participating in their closed social networks, so that it's almost impossible to leave (2006). 3) You willingly switched over essentially all human communication to said social ne…

Great, so what's the solution? What are you doing to fix it? Do you roll your own silicon? Do you grow your own food (we have no idea what someone could be putting in it)? Are you completely off-grid? Or are you as completely dependent on society writ large as everyone else? Making holier than thou comments about everyone else being sheep isn't helpful or thought provoking. Offer an alternative if it is a bad one (lo…

> Great, so what's the solution?

I'd argue: avoid using proprietary networks, avoid vendor lock-in with software and hardware, and use hardware that one is allowed to use their own software on. Champion using open and federated protocols for social tools.

I think solutions exist, but honestly, it isn't easy.

> Making holier than thou comments about everyone else being sheep isn't helpful

I would offer the GP comment isn't necessarily a holier than thou comment, it's a comment of frustration. Frankly, I feel the same frustration.

It's tiring to hear snide remarks of "ohh yeah, we can include you for something because you don't have an iPhone". Hell, I have openly heard, even on this forum, that people don't include folks on social conversations with EVEN THEIR OWN FAMILY because of the dreaded "green bubble". (FYI, MMS is entirely done over HTTP and SMS! How is Apple's MMS client so bad that it can't handle HTTP and SMS?).

Or there is the "why don't you have WhatsApp/Facebook/Instagram/etc." and people think your some sort of weirdo because you don't want to use those networks.

So to be honest, when I see something like that, I think "Well I'm not surprised, this is what happens when you are locked out of your own hardware".

> What are you doing to fix it?

While GP may not be doing anything, others are helping and actively working for alternatives. For example, I have been working to get the Pinephone to have MMS and Visual Voicemail support so I can use it daily. I an very fortunate to work with a lot of very talented and motivated folks who want to see it succeed.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#599

Post by subsection1h » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 3:34 PM UTC

neycoda wrote: post #486

GeekyBear wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have people already forgotten that Microsoft implemented the tech to routinely scan your cloud storage a decade ago? >The system that scans cloud drives for illegal images was created by Microsoft and Dartmouth College and donated to NCMEC. The organization creates signatures of the worst known images of child pornography, approximately 16,000 files at present. These file signatures are given to service providers who…

I'm OK with software generating signatures from cloud drive images to eliminate child porn pictures and catch pedophiles.

LOL. Your HN account is only a year old, so maybe you weren't alive when the Patriot Act was passed and people like you supported it because of all the scary terrorists.

"Known as a 'sneak and peek' warrant, law enforcement was adamant Section 213 was needed to protect against terrorism. But the latest government report detailing the numbers of 'sneak and peek' warrants reveals that out of a total of over 11,000 sneak and peek requests, only 51 were used for terrorism."

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/10/peekaboo-i-see-you-gov...

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#600

Post by goatmeal » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 3:34 PM UTC

gjulianm wrote: post #581

emptysongglass wrote: post #575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dumping Facebook and its products as I and others have done is one strong step forward but people can't even manage this. It's deeply disappointing. Techno bears its seeds in rebellion but everybody throwing techno parties is coordinating on what is essentially an Orwellian state. Punks too, they're cozied up to this framework of oppression and can't see it for what it is. I think people have a hard time seeing the e…

> Dumping Facebook and its products as I and others have done is one strong step forward A strong step forward that gets nullified when Facebook buys the alternative app you're using, or when the app you're using does things as Facebook does. You can propose all individual options you want, this is a collective issue that won't get fixed just by calls to individual action.

facebook is not going to buy my fediverse instance or my XMPP server. "they will just buy whatever gets used" gets thrown around too much as a sort of impotent defeatism. I don't see them buying instances on federated networks running open source software, and these networks are growing. we have to stop having this 2007 mindset that it is still okay to try to dump millions of people into a large centralized microblogging site.