Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship • Hacker News Board

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#311

Post by BelenusMordred » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 3:01 PM UTC

dbetteridge wrote: post #164

EE84M3i wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, I seem to recall hearing Australians also have complicated rules about being an "Australian resident for tax purposes" that is not the same as an Australian resident for other purposes, especially when you don't have Permanent Residence/Green Card and are on a time-limited visa (even if it's years long). So they don't technically fall into the "America and Eritrea" bad list, but still tax many Australians abroad…

Not too bad really for us overseas Australians. If you took out a HECS (0% interest, indexed to inflation) loan for university study you still need to file taxes when resident overseas and continue making payments if you earn over the threshold. If you are resident in Australia more then 6mths of the year you must complete an Australian tax return, but for most people that involves logging in around september and che…

They only just changed the laws a month ago to make it so opaque and vague about who qualifies as a tax-resident or not. It's basically a "if we want we will tax you" situation. The 183 day rule means little if you have even something as innocuous as a bank account back home now. It's a ridiculously stricter change that is entirely open to interpretation by the ATO.

https://www.mondaq.com/australia/income-tax/1070880/tax-resi...

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#312

Post by libbroscrubber » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 3:01 PM UTC

Dma54rhs wrote: post #191

luffapi wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not the “dominant narrative”, it’s historical fact. Slavery, segregation and genocide of Native Americans aren’t fabricated stories, they actually happened. Patriotism is for fools. Civil spirit starts with not rejecting citizenship for tax reasons.

Every border in the world is built upon blood and war, not any different really.

The US had segregation until 1964. It's pretty much done non-stop military adventurism since it's inception. Yes, most countries are unethical and morally repulsive, but the US is at the very top of the heap and it has been for a long time.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

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Post by christkv » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 3:02 PM UTC

academia_hack wrote: post #42

It's so irritating to be an American that has moved overseas. Basically the only country in the world that charges taxes on money you make and spend somewhere else, just because of where you were born. Thanks to IRS regulations, 90% of investment firms will just reject me outright rather than deal with the paperwork. Getting someone to help file my inordinately complex taxes costs thousands of dollars more than I act…

Oh god don't get me started. I cannot have a shared account with my wife because she is american. She can only be authorized. She cannot get her own credit card but has to be an authorized card holder on my account.

If I tried to actually but her as a shared account user the bank told me they will terminate the relationship.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#314

Post by libbroscrubber » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 3:03 PM UTC

alephnan wrote: post #89

Being upset about this is like feeling Roth accounts are unfair.

Are you talking about the Peter Theil thing? I think it's fair that people who don't like watching billionaires exploit the rest of us would be equally pissed about Eric Schmidt dodging taxes.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#315

Post by moss2 » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 3:04 PM UTC

not_throw_away wrote: post #235

moss2 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not related, but I pay about 40% income tax plus a 25% value-added tax (VAT) on every purchase. It's at a good level but my political belief is that this should be higher.

That's not an uncommon belief - feel free to write an extra check to your tax department and they will happily accept it. Normally tax departments have a whole system set up to accept voluntary additional tax payments for anyone who feels inclined to top up their contribution to the wellbeing of the state.

Very clever, but my tax agency does not allow for donations.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#316

Post by simonh » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 3:04 PM UTC

api wrote: post #290

academia_hack wrote: post #42

It's so irritating to be an American that has moved overseas. Basically the only country in the world that charges taxes on money you make and spend somewhere else, just because of where you were born. Thanks to IRS regulations, 90% of investment firms will just reject me outright rather than deal with the paperwork. Getting someone to help file my inordinately complex taxes costs thousands of dollars more than I act…

AFAIK if you live in a country like Canada with higher taxes you still have to file to maintain citizenship but you end up paying zero since you can deduct what you paid in your home country. This would apply to people relocating to countries with a lower tax base. In that case you have to renounce.

You can still get caught out. Taxes in the UK are generally higher than in the US, but Boris Johnson still got hit with a US tax bill when he inherited a flat in London.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#317

Post by jl2718 » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 3:04 PM UTC

> Eric Schmidt, the former Alphabet CEO, has applied to become a citizen of Cyprus.

Is he going to pay an exit tax, or has he found a way around this too?

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#318

Post by MuirsGhost » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 3:04 PM UTC

alephnan wrote: post #118

There's this idea floating around in this thread that people get rich, then get richer in and then leave to evade taxes. If optimizing for money really was people's intention, it's much more optimal to leave before you become mega rich. You can move to Singapore once you have $6 million to buy a visa-by-investment. There's no cap gains taxes there, so your money can compound unencumbered. Then again, not every ex-pat…

>it's much more optimal to leave before you become mega rich.

It is almost as if the US provides some kind of useful, taxpayer funded, environment for becoming mega rich....

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#319

Post by emodendroket » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 3:04 PM UTC

simonh wrote: post #301

emodendroket wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many Americans actually end up with real tax liability from a foreign country? Probably need to answer that before we determine whether it's "worth it" because my understanding is most people don't.

Well there are a handful right here on this comment section. I'm a Brit and have known maybe half a dozen US citizens reasonably well here in London over the years, at least two of which renounced US citizenship for tax reasons while I knew them. It's definitely a thing.

According to another post you do not owe tax on income below $108k so that’s probably not going to affect most filers, though I’m sure an anomalously high number of HN users are earning six-figure salaries.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#320

Post by papito » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 3:05 PM UTC

trutannus wrote: post #289

papito wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, now, let's not paint "authoritarianism" as "lefty". Some Marx-reading student on campus is not exactly a threat, is it? The ultra-left sentiment is, indeed, anti-liberal at its core, but it is still an irrelevant fringe . The actual, viable threat of authoritarianism is coming from the opposite side, which is a spit away from holding absolute power, here in the States, at least. And then, it's on.

This is a complete misrepresentation of my point. I never tried to 'paint "authoritarianism" as "lefty"'. I specified there's an issue with lefties who are also authoritarians . If you don't think that can exist and if you think it's not that big of a deal, I suggest you take a look at the latter-half of the 20th century. It's pretty uncharitable to paint my argument as being afraid of a student on a campus who's rea…

"highly vocal", "influential to public opinion". I am sorry, these are just words. Prove that it's influential.

Is there an effort by these "loud" individuals to drive a focused disinformation campaign targeted at nullifying legitimate votes? One third of the United States is entirely sold on it. That is quite "influential", I would say, and presents clear and present danger.