Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship • Hacker News Board

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#261

Post by dlisboa » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 2:32 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #254

dlisboa wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s only relevant to a tiny percentage of American immigrants who travel/work in conflict zones and unfriendly countries. It could even be said Americans are more at risk in those countries for being American and no other reason. So for people outside of that there won’t be any benefit.

> only relevant to a tiny percentage of American immigrants who travel/work in conflict zones and unfriendly countries I know a (thankfully small) handful of cases in which Americans' kids were arrested in a friendly country. The State Department provided invaluable support. (Recommendations on legal counsel, prudent next steps, relevant authorities' phone numbers...nothing nefarious, just context and support.) I am…

I think you're under the impression this doesn't happen with other countries too. That's the job of embassies. Obviously the State Department has more funding and resources, but that's really only relevant to how big of a trouble you got yourself into.

One thing the US has is more bargaining power to force early release of some people accused of crimes (like Liangelo Ball in China, Anne Sacoolas in UK). That's significant leverage, but again: most people will never find themselves in that situation. But even then it's not like other countries will not imprison you if you're American.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#262

Post by bell-cot » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 2:32 PM UTC

circular_logic wrote: post #63

Interesting facts about renouncing American citizenship: - There is renunciation fee that has to be paid and currently stands at $2,350 (the highest in the world).[1] - A final tax return will sill need to be filed. [1] - An Expatriation tax is payable if [..] Your net worth is $2 million or more on the date of your expatriation. you will be treated as having disposed of your assets the day before your expatriation a…

> ...it would seem that the IRS is trying very hard make this process unappealing

IANAL, but I believe that all the unpleasantries which you note were decided by the U.S. Congress. (Most probably with the President's sign-off.) Making the IRS out to be the Real Villain(tm) here only helps a bunch of self-serving politicians to evade responsibility.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#263

Post by iso1631 » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 2:32 PM UTC

cblconfederate wrote: post #159

pjerem wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you know that you pay taxes on the country you live & work in ? So you have to find a job and a house in Cyprus. And on top of that, Cyprus is one of the few european countries that are not yet in the Schengen area. So you'll have to stay on the tiny 9,251 Square Kilometers.

Ehm, you can travel to all of EU, the only thing that changes is you stand on a different line in the airport

Not just travel - many people can travel to all of the EU. A Cyprus citizen has the right to live and work anywhere in the EU.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#264

Post by berinateni » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 2:33 PM UTC

academia_hack wrote: post #42

It's so irritating to be an American that has moved overseas. Basically the only country in the world that charges taxes on money you make and spend somewhere else, just because of where you were born. Thanks to IRS regulations, 90% of investment firms will just reject me outright rather than deal with the paperwork. Getting someone to help file my inordinately complex taxes costs thousands of dollars more than I act…

Eric Schmidt renounced his US citizenship even though he owns 2 California homes and one in Massachusetts.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#265

Post by jontas » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 2:34 PM UTC

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #94

academia_hack wrote: post #42

It's so irritating to be an American that has moved overseas. Basically the only country in the world that charges taxes on money you make and spend somewhere else, just because of where you were born. Thanks to IRS regulations, 90% of investment firms will just reject me outright rather than deal with the paperwork. Getting someone to help file my inordinately complex taxes costs thousands of dollars more than I act…

> It's so irritating to be an American that has moved overseas. Basically the only country in the world that charges taxes on money you make and spend somewhere else, just because of where you were born. This is exactly why these people are renouncing US citizenship: They’re living overseas as citizens of another country and, like anyone rich or poor, don’t want to be paying taxes to a country they aren’t living in.…

The article is not drawing an arbitrary line:

> The IRS publishes a quarterly list of the names of people who have renounced their citizenship or given up their green cards, but it only includes people with global assets over $2 million

It may be an arbitrary line, but if so, it's the IRS drawing it.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#266

Post by leoedin » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 2:34 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #184

mgbmtl wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> surrendering US citizenship is a logical choice Only because of US laws. I have two citizenships, but one residency. In most Western countries, being a resident is associated with healthcare and pension, so having one residency is logical.

> Only because of US laws. I have two citizenships, but one residency. U.S. citizenship carries extraterritorial benefits. For example, we're pretty good at getting our people out of thorny situations, even at great national expense. If someone isn't paying to support that, it makes sense to force a revocation decision.

Most Western countries have some level of extraterritorial benefits. At least in the UK they're nominally "paid for" by the cost of the passport. If you're a dual citizen with another country you have no obligation to get a passport - but shouldn't expect help without one.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#267

Post by berinateni » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 2:35 PM UTC

rwmj wrote: post #60

tartoran wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This article is about wealthy people. We all know they are paying relatively no taxes or doing their best to. Yes, Americans who moved to Europe and are happily making a living there are also giving up US citizenship but end up paying taxes in 2 places or deal with a lot of hassle they’d rather not

No one's moving the Europe for the lower taxes.

Cyprus is in Europe

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#268

Post by cblconfederate » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 2:35 PM UTC

iso1631 wrote: post #263

cblconfederate wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ehm, you can travel to all of EU, the only thing that changes is you stand on a different line in the airport

Not just travel - many people can travel to all of the EU. A Cyprus citizen has the right to live and work anywhere in the EU.

correct. you re not in any way confined to the island

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#269

Post by MangoCoffee » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 2:35 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #184

mgbmtl wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> surrendering US citizenship is a logical choice Only because of US laws. I have two citizenships, but one residency. In most Western countries, being a resident is associated with healthcare and pension, so having one residency is logical.

> Only because of US laws. I have two citizenships, but one residency. U.S. citizenship carries extraterritorial benefits. For example, we're pretty good at getting our people out of thorny situations, even at great national expense. If someone isn't paying to support that, it makes sense to force a revocation decision.

>we're pretty good at getting our people out of thorny situations, even at great national expense. If someone isn't paying to support that, it makes sense to force a revocation decision.

how many American get into that kind of shit storm? it seem like this benefit isn't worth the taxes that you pay

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#270

Post by Gunax » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 2:38 PM UTC

It's completely corrupt. I don't know why we cannot change it.

Remember that you need not ever even have been to America to be a citizen. Second, America can decide who is a citizen according to their own laws, which is a bit of a conflict of interest.

So currently children of Americans are American, but there's no reason they couldn't arbitrarily decide that grand children, or great grandchildren are as well. Or if you want to be really silly, in theory they could grant citizenship to anyone if they amended the laws to do so.

So ive been given a status at birth by a foreign country that I have no wish for. They then grant me the privilege of paying them to renounce the status that they declared me to have!

Why thank you land of the free!