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Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

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Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#551

Post by lijogdfljk »

Nullabillity wrote: post #390
ricardobeat wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like every other system since UEFI came out a decade ago. Do you use a Librem phone/laptop yourself?

Most other manufacturers aren't in the business of pushing their own OS.

Fwiw, Apple's incentive seems to be hardware from the outside more than Software, imo. They tend to sell the hardware by the software for a lot of people, but given that they're so concerned with keeping their software on their hardware i suspect they don't have much reason to push their software over your software.

What would concern me is if we see a big revenue stream from their software. Then i'd question them not wanting Linux on their machines.

But imo you already gave them what they want when you buy an M1. I don't see a reason why they care beyond that.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#552

Post by williamscales »

hprotagonist wrote: post #549
raxxorrax wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Great, so what's the solution? Seriously? Perhaps heed the warnings? Whenever Apple tightened the reigns, thousand of apologists came to their defense. I wouldn't even have minded if they kept their obedience to personal decisions. But they extended their enlightenment to others.

> Perhaps heed the warnings? And then take what actions, exactly? “Guys this is trouble” is …fine, but without “and we should therefore do”, it’s just kind of spitting into the wind.

> And then take what actions, exactly?

Don’t buy or use their products.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#553

Post by regnull »

zepto wrote: post #523
regnull wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution is to go back to the original spirit of the Internet, when it was a set of open standards connecting people and organizations. Somehow it got forgotten and now we have a bunch of commercial companies giving you the same stuff in exchange for your privacy and who increasingly control everything you do.

The spirit of the internet won’t generate secure hardware or a transparent software stack. Also, that spirit existed only in an adversary free environment. You may as well say the solution is for everyone to be nice to each other. The solution is to build new technologies that are privacy preserving, transparent, don’t place trust in a central authority but are resistant to attack . This is possible but nobody has bu…

> The solution is to build new technologies that are privacy preserving, transparent, don’t place trust in a central authority but are resistant to attack.

I actually completely agree with this.

> This is possible but nobody has built it yet.

Doesn't mean we should stop trying. Here's my $0.02 - I've been building an email solution based on Self-Sovereign Identity ideas, still in progress, but check it out: https://ubikom.cc or https://github.com/regnull/ubikom

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#554

Post by josefx »

ddtaylor wrote: post #440
exo762 wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would any fan of someones work buy a knock-off copy? We can safely assume they are a fan, otherwise why would even buy it? Also, painting is a physical object. It's a one of a kind. EDIT: your objection and many many other questions like that are nicely argued against here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhBpI13dxkI (The Surprising History of Copyright talk by Karl Fogel)

Do you think people will want to create new stories if others can undercut and sell their work for less?

Do you know how many stories cannot be published because people sit on the IP? There are unpublished "movies" that only exist to maintain exclusive licensing deals that outright prohibit studios from sitting on the IP, letting the original authors work rot until it is forgotten.

Or we can talk about the mess you get with too many groups involved? Do you know who has the rights to Westwoods Dune? Westwood itself had a limited time license for games based on the movie Dune, which also had a license based on the Dune books. So you would have to deal with three license owners to make a Game involving the Ordos faction. Have fun convincing EA, whoever owns the movie rights and the original authors family that you can make a new game worth their signature on a new licensing agreement (you could probably manage if you have a small country to sell).

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#555

Post by BiteCode_dev »

snarf21 wrote: post #500
keyme wrote: post #221

Dear humans, 1) You willingly delegated the decision of what code is allowed to run on your devices to the manufacturer (2009). Smart voices warned you of today's present even then. 2) You willingly got yourself irrevocably vendor-locked by participating in their closed social networks, so that it's almost impossible to leave (2006). 3) You willingly switched over essentially all human communication to said social ne…

Great, so what's the solution? What are you doing to fix it? Do you roll your own silicon? Do you grow your own food (we have no idea what someone could be putting in it)? Are you completely off-grid? Or are you as completely dependent on society writ large as everyone else? Making holier than thou comments about everyone else being sheep isn't helpful or thought provoking. Offer an alternative if it is a bad one (lo…

What we have been doing would have worked if the majority would have followed.

Chose open standards, use and contribute to FOSS, avoid social networks, get involved in your local community, etc.

No need to go to extreems or complicated plans, corporations follow the customers.

But nobody did listen. Quite the opposite. I never had a facebook account, and now today people are boasting when they leave FB. But 10 years ago ? Oh we were the paranoid extremists .

Even today my friends regularly pressure me to get whatsapp.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#556

Post by raxxorrax »

durovo wrote: post #274
keyme wrote: post #221

Dear humans, 1) You willingly delegated the decision of what code is allowed to run on your devices to the manufacturer (2009). Smart voices warned you of today's present even then. 2) You willingly got yourself irrevocably vendor-locked by participating in their closed social networks, so that it's almost impossible to leave (2006). 3) You willingly switched over essentially all human communication to said social ne…

If it seems like this scanning is working as advertised, this will be a great marketing stunt for Apple. Actual predators will stop using Apple products out of fear of getting caught and they will be forced to use Android. Now any person who owns an Android is a potential predator. Also, if you are trying to jailbreak your iPhone, you are a potential predator.

I think having a manufacturer that is able to read the contents of your device at any point is good marketing. Although, I know some Apple users that would certainly buy that excuse.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#557

Post by Bjartr »

hprotagonist wrote: post #549
raxxorrax wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Great, so what's the solution? Seriously? Perhaps heed the warnings? Whenever Apple tightened the reigns, thousand of apologists came to their defense. I wouldn't even have minded if they kept their obedience to personal decisions. But they extended their enlightenment to others.

> Perhaps heed the warnings? And then take what actions, exactly? “Guys this is trouble” is …fine, but without “and we should therefore do”, it’s just kind of spitting into the wind.

The warning: "Don't buy Apple products, their locked down hardware and walled garden is going to be trouble"

People: Ignore warning, buy iPhone

You: "Don't buy Apple products" isn't an action.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#558

Post by raxxorrax »

zomgbbq wrote: post #442
keyme wrote: post #221

Dear humans, 1) You willingly delegated the decision of what code is allowed to run on your devices to the manufacturer (2009). Smart voices warned you of today's present even then. 2) You willingly got yourself irrevocably vendor-locked by participating in their closed social networks, so that it's almost impossible to leave (2006). 3) You willingly switched over essentially all human communication to said social ne…

It's over the top comments like this that make me visit ycombinator less and less each week.

What do you think is over the top with it? The manufacturer just told you he will implement a complete read permission on your device.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#559

Post by ksec »

keyme wrote: post #221

Dear humans, 1) You willingly delegated the decision of what code is allowed to run on your devices to the manufacturer (2009). Smart voices warned you of today's present even then. 2) You willingly got yourself irrevocably vendor-locked by participating in their closed social networks, so that it's almost impossible to leave (2006). 3) You willingly switched over essentially all human communication to said social ne…

First they came for the Communists. And I did not speak out Because I was not a Communist

Then they came for the Socialists. And I did not speak out Because I was not a Socialist

Then they came for the trade unionists And I did not speak out Because I was not a trade unionist

Then they came for the Jews. And I did not speak out Because I was not a Jew

Then they came for me. And there was no one left To speak out for me

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#560

Post by zepto »

regnull wrote: post #553
zepto wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The spirit of the internet won’t generate secure hardware or a transparent software stack. Also, that spirit existed only in an adversary free environment. You may as well say the solution is for everyone to be nice to each other. The solution is to build new technologies that are privacy preserving, transparent, don’t place trust in a central authority but are resistant to attack . This is possible but nobody has bu…

> The solution is to build new technologies that are privacy preserving, transparent, don’t place trust in a central authority but are resistant to attack. I actually completely agree with this. > This is possible but nobody has built it yet. Doesn't mean we should stop trying. Here's my $0.02 - I've been building an email solution based on Self-Sovereign Identity ideas, still in progress, but check it out: https://u…

> Doesn't mean we should stop trying.

Who is suggesting ‘stopping trying’?

To me the only thing that sounds like ‘stopping trying’ is boycotting Apple, as though that has anything whatsoever to do with the problem.

It doesn’t matter what vendor you use. The only thing you can do to help is to identify parts of the solution, explain them, and build them.

I don’t have time to check out your email solution but I hope it is part of the solution.

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