Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

axios.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 876 posts

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#191

Post by Dma54rhs »

luffapi wrote: post #146
zarkov99 wrote: post #52

Of course they are. When the dominant narrative is that America is a racist hellscape, built on oppression and plunder then things like patriotism and civic spirit seem absurd, quaint notions, ripe for ridicule.

That’s not the “dominant narrative”, it’s historical fact. Slavery, segregation and genocide of Native Americans aren’t fabricated stories, they actually happened. Patriotism is for fools. Civil spirit starts with not rejecting citizenship for tax reasons.

Every border in the world is built upon blood and war, not any different really.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#192

Post by Causality1 »

academia_hack wrote: post #42

It's so irritating to be an American that has moved overseas. Basically the only country in the world that charges taxes on money you make and spend somewhere else, just because of where you were born. Thanks to IRS regulations, 90% of investment firms will just reject me outright rather than deal with the paperwork. Getting someone to help file my inordinately complex taxes costs thousands of dollars more than I act…

expats the citizenship-based taxation system is almost cartoonishly cruel.

If the concept of citizenship has no meaning to you beyond personal convenience, sure. If citizenship and the responsibilities inherent in it is something you take seriously, it makes a little more sense. Why should an expat who's not interested in living in and participating in the future of their former nation even be allowed to remain a citizen at all?

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#193

Post by fmajid »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #94
academia_hack wrote: post #42

It's so irritating to be an American that has moved overseas. Basically the only country in the world that charges taxes on money you make and spend somewhere else, just because of where you were born. Thanks to IRS regulations, 90% of investment firms will just reject me outright rather than deal with the paperwork. Getting someone to help file my inordinately complex taxes costs thousands of dollars more than I act…

> It's so irritating to be an American that has moved overseas. Basically the only country in the world that charges taxes on money you make and spend somewhere else, just because of where you were born. This is exactly why these people are renouncing US citizenship: They’re living overseas as citizens of another country and, like anyone rich or poor, don’t want to be paying taxes to a country they aren’t living in.…

Some are "accidental Americans" like UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson, born in the US, who discovered as a US citizen he had to pay capital gains taxes when he sold his London apartment. Australia requires its parliamentarians to have only Australian citizenship and some discovered for the same reason they were not eligible.

Furthermore, the burden of FATCA is sufficiently onerous that many banks etc. just refuse to deal with it and close the accounts of US persons. A number of long-time expat Americans, e.g. in Germany, have renounced their citizenship because they are unable to function due to this.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#194

Post by dr-detroit »

larrysalibra wrote: post #103
academia_hack wrote: post #42

It's so irritating to be an American that has moved overseas. Basically the only country in the world that charges taxes on money you make and spend somewhere else, just because of where you were born. Thanks to IRS regulations, 90% of investment firms will just reject me outright rather than deal with the paperwork. Getting someone to help file my inordinately complex taxes costs thousands of dollars more than I act…

As a former American who lived abroad for about 11 years before renouncing, “cartoonishly cruel” is a pretty accurate description of the system. It’s even worse an American entrepreneur abroad because that makes things even more complicated. I gave up jumping through the hoops in 2018 and the self-torture and renounced. I shared my story in case anyone is interested: https://larrysalibra.com/goodbye-usa/

interesting he hates america but loves that stylish iWatch. he just wants to reap a luxury lifestyle and give nothing back tot he peasant class.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#195

Post by koonsolo »

Thiez wrote: post #122
jkepler wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What biblical reference are you alluding to? I'm not sure how its relevant to the question of where the rich who leave the USA go?

It's all terribly off-topic, but presumably they are talking about Matthew 19:24, which says (ymmv based on your exact translation): "Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

Seems like the top of the Catholic Church will not go to heaven then ;)

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#196

Post by sergiotapia »

fourthwaveska wrote: post #44

By most western standards my family teeters on the line between middle and upper middle clas. We sold all of our US property last year; and now we are shopping for 4-6 unit buildings within 100km of Barcelona to get our Golden Visas. Our goal is to get citizenship and access to the EU then renouncing my US citizenship. It isnt about money, I am juwt ashamed to have an American passport and know my tax dollars are bei…

Stop the cap

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#197

Post by mythz »

EE84M3i wrote: post #182
mythz wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is untrue, if you're a citizen of Australia who is a non-resident you don't have to report or pay taxes on world wide income made outside of Australia.

There is an example[1] on their official site of an Australian living abroad in Japan and being a "resident for tax purposes" and thus being taxed, but not being a resident for other purposes. [1]: https://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/coming-to-australia-or-go...

Right they're still classified as a resident since they're on a temporary contract who intended on returning after their contract has expired.

If they had permanent residence in a different country they wouldn't need to.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#198

Post by xtracto »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #132

Many of the comments here are preposterous. I am a socialist by conviction, my whole life, and strongly believe the wealthy should pay their fair share. But being a Canadian and knowing many Americans who have come here to work -- making prosperous but not insane professional class incomes -- and still having to file with the IRS, often having to pay into the IRS (without receiving services back in the US) and having…

Right. Back when i was living in Germany we were part of a very international community. I learned about the USA taxes craze when our poor American friend had to file his US taxes. Everyone in the group was like WHAT? My opinion is that it's a quite abusive practice.

However I've heard some people say it is worth the hassle so that you can save your passport everywhere saying "I'm American " and getting some sort of special treatment. Or that your embassy saves you from some crazy scenario you could get into as an expat.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#199

Post by shell0x »

apples_oranges wrote: post #76
circular_logic wrote: post #63

Interesting facts about renouncing American citizenship: - There is renunciation fee that has to be paid and currently stands at $2,350 (the highest in the world).[1] - A final tax return will sill need to be filed. [1] - An Expatriation tax is payable if [..] Your net worth is $2 million or more on the date of your expatriation. you will be treated as having disposed of your assets the day before your expatriation a…

Can a citizenship be exchanged? For example you get my Australian passport, I get your American? Neither country loses a taxpayer this way.. ;)

Not exchanged, but considering Australia and America are both immigrant countries, you may be able to get an Italian or Irish passport based on ancestry if your ancestors came from there.
Post reply on HN