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Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

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Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#101
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one's moving the Europe for the lower taxes.

Cyprus gives you access to the EU while being a tax haven. https://www.vox.com/recode/2020/11/9/21547055/eric-schmidt-g...

Well, you know that you pay taxes on the country you live & work in ? So you have to find a job and a house in Cyprus. And on top of that, Cyprus is one of the few european countries that are not yet in the Schengen area. So you'll have to stay on the tiny 9,251 Square Kilometers.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#102
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cyprus gives you access to the EU while being a tax haven. https://www.vox.com/recode/2020/11/9/21547055/eric-schmidt-g...

Well, you know that you pay taxes on the country you live & work in ? So you have to find a job and a house in Cyprus. And on top of that, Cyprus is one of the few european countries that are not yet in the Schengen area. So you'll have to stay on the tiny 9,251 Square Kilometers.

> So you have to find a job and a house in Cyprus

I think Eric Schmidt can afford that

> you know that you pay taxes on the country you live & work in

Yes, I know this. I live abroad.

Yes, every country has taxes. The tax rates are not the same. Additionally, countries like Singapore have zero capital gains tax. Executives can just take a symbolic job and pay themselves a symbolic salary, but they're not getting rich off their salaries

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#103

It's so irritating to be an American that has moved overseas. Basically the only country in the world that charges taxes on money you make and spend somewhere else, just because of where you were born. Thanks to IRS regulations, 90% of investment firms will just reject me outright rather than deal with the paperwork. Getting someone to help file my inordinately complex taxes costs thousands of dollars more than I act…

As a former American who lived abroad for about 11 years before renouncing, “cartoonishly cruel” is a pretty accurate description of the system. It’s even worse an American entrepreneur abroad because that makes things even more complicated.

I gave up jumping through the hoops in 2018 and the self-torture and renounced. I shared my story in case anyone is interested: https://larrysalibra.com/goodbye-usa/

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#104

By most western standards my family teeters on the line between middle and upper middle clas. We sold all of our US property last year; and now we are shopping for 4-6 unit buildings within 100km of Barcelona to get our Golden Visas. Our goal is to get citizenship and access to the EU then renouncing my US citizenship. It isnt about money, I am juwt ashamed to have an American passport and know my tax dollars are bei…

Spanish tax and legal system is a nightmare. Have you looked at Portugal?

Yes, but my wife has spent the past four years learning Spanish and every time I suggest Portugal she gets a murderous look in her eyes.

My preference is actually Denmark, but it is an order of magnitude more difficult to move there, and my wife hates the language :(

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#105

They’ve been allowed for decades to avoid paying for the infrastructure and management of the country while simultaneously holding most of the influence. “Renouncing citizenship” means they’ll give up none of the influence, lose the taxes, live how and wherever they want. The best thing to do is forbid them re-entry into the country nor to hold controlling interest in any company in the US. Faced with actual conseque…

> The best thing to do is forbid them re-entry into the country nor to hold controlling interest in any company in the US. Do we forbid foreigners from holding US stocks, assets, etc? Who do you think is financing the profligate lifestyle we live, compared to our true earnings?

> Who do you think is financing the profligate lifestyle we live, compared to our true earnings?

Globalized labor and environmental exploitation, of which the wealthy are gaining the most.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#106

It's so irritating to be an American that has moved overseas. Basically the only country in the world that charges taxes on money you make and spend somewhere else, just because of where you were born. Thanks to IRS regulations, 90% of investment firms will just reject me outright rather than deal with the paperwork. Getting someone to help file my inordinately complex taxes costs thousands of dollars more than I act…

> It's so irritating to be an American that has moved overseas. Basically the only country in the world that charges taxes on money you make and spend somewhere else, just because of where you were born. This is exactly why these people are renouncing US citizenship: They’re living overseas as citizens of another country and, like anyone rich or poor, don’t want to be paying taxes to a country they aren’t living in.…

One should actually be a bit careful to state such intent. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reed_Amendment_(immigration)

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#107
post #6

Without getting into the moral debate of taxing US Citizens globally... how could the US government stop this from happening? Surely these ex-citizens hold a lot of assets in the US, and most probably spend a lot of time in the country. Could the gov't effectively banish them or ban them from holding assets in US assets? What would be the side effects of such a law?

> how could the US government stop this from happening? By taxing based on residency, not citizenship, like pretty much all other countries on Earth. People have the right to lower their tax liability within the law, they have the right to move, and they have the right to renounce citizenship (if they have another one). We're not going to prevent any of that from happening. The only thing the US can do is to remove t…

Do you have a citation where US (federal) law requires one to have a foreign citizenship in order to renounce US citizenship?

Or, would it be possible to renounce US citizenship without foreign citizenship, perhaps while maintaining citizenship in one's state of origin in one of the seven states—Alaska, Florida, Nevada, South Dakota, Texas, Washington, and Wyoming—which levy no state income tax, or in one of the two others, New Hampshire and Tennessee, which don't tax earned wages? In other words, could one reside overseas but maintain a tie with a particular state within the USA without any relationship to the federal government?

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#108

By most western standards my family teeters on the line between middle and upper middle clas. We sold all of our US property last year; and now we are shopping for 4-6 unit buildings within 100km of Barcelona to get our Golden Visas. Our goal is to get citizenship and access to the EU then renouncing my US citizenship. It isnt about money, I am juwt ashamed to have an American passport and know my tax dollars are bei…

Spanish tax and legal system is a nightmare. Have you looked at Portugal?

Don’t they have no capital gains tax?

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#109
post #56

I stand to make a life changing amount of money through an impending future liquidity event. I cannot understand people who do this. Throwing away US citizenship for mere extra dollars in ones bank account… What is the state of your life? Have you no family or community? Are you really willing to uproot yourself and your entire lifestyle for mere wealth? The HN libertarians love to comment on articles like this and p…

I am considering renouncing my US citizenship and it has little to do with money. I've been living abroad for 10 years now and I have no interest in moving back. I am in regular contact with my family and friends back in the US and I also have a social local social life. All I'll be giving up is paying US taxes and being able to spend more than 90 days a year visiting.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#110

It's so irritating to be an American that has moved overseas. Basically the only country in the world that charges taxes on money you make and spend somewhere else, just because of where you were born. Thanks to IRS regulations, 90% of investment firms will just reject me outright rather than deal with the paperwork. Getting someone to help file my inordinately complex taxes costs thousands of dollars more than I act…

I don't see how wealth has much to do with it. It's a question of citizenship and taxes.

The other extreme is what we currently have in Croatia:

A vast group of people who don't live here have citizenship and they express their patriotism by voting for the conservative right without exception for the past 30 years.

If you want to be treated as a citizen — live here and pay your taxes. If you don't, the door's that way.

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