NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings • Hacker News Board

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#831

Post by turtlebits » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 3:11 AM UTC

Honestly, I would just prefer everyone mask up and everything be locked down again. The amount of bickering is maddening.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#832

Post by 99_00 » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 3:13 AM UTC

60% of African Americans will be excluded from these business due to vaccination rates among African Americans in New York State.

https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-...

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#833

Post by stereo » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 3:13 AM UTC

swader999 wrote: post #600

tayo42 wrote: post #565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you not show your ID at a bar? What privacy are you giving up here?

Do they scan it with a call to the cloud to verify it? That's the real threat here - continuous tracking, ability to turn it off or geo fence you to a certain area.

The EU-style vaccination certificates can be locally verified. No data goes to the cloud, and the software is, for many countries, open source.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#834

Post by Consultant32452 » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 3:14 AM UTC

nicoffeine wrote: post #362

Consultant32452 wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I care more about the health of small business than I do about the health of people who contract covid and will continue to view all sociopolitical activity through that unchanging lens.

I agree to some extent, but if the virus mutates among the unvaccinated and breaks through all current vaccines, small businesses profitability will be a small part of a much larger catastrophe.

Vaccine use is accelerating the evolution of the virus because these vaccines don’t stop you from catching COVID, they just provide a different kind of host to adapt to.

Add that variable into your calculation and reimagine the future with a more accurate understanding of what’s to come and what you think about these new variants.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#835

Post by IG_Semmelweiss » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 3:16 AM UTC

chimeracoder wrote: post #159

cm2187 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the only reasons people wouldn't want to take the vaccine. For instance lots of people already had covid (particularly in NYC), and developed a natural immunity, which from the low reinfection rate, seems to be rock solid. It doesn't make a lot of sense to require that population to take a vaccine. As for the vaccine being more or less dangerous than the virus, I think for any population over 40 or in poor…

> As for the vaccine being more or less dangerous than the virus, I think for any population over 40 or in poor health, the trade off is clearly in favour of the vaccine. But if you are 20 and in good health, I am not sure it is that obvious. The risks of complications from the virus are many orders of magnitude higher than risks of complications from the vaccine, even for people in their 20s.

This was addressed upthread by timr

There are no actual double blind, controlled, replicable studies that conclusively demonstrate "long covid"

Long covid may be a thing. Right now, its like any anecdata on any virus.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#836

Post by exefraud » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 3:18 AM UTC

Execute Fauci! Execute Fauci! Execute Fauci! Execute Fauci!

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#837

Post by JPKab » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 3:19 AM UTC

timr wrote: post #129

alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

I am pro-vaccine (and fully vaccinated), but I don't support this policy at all. I don't believe this will have much of a net effect on vaccination rate, I believe it will disproportionately negatively impact poor and minority populations in NYC who already have a bad/mistrustful relationship with health care and government, and it is obviously a huge new governmental intrusion into our daily lives. It might well lea…

The vaccine is free, and widely made available. The communities who aren't getting it, provided they aren't politically conservative, are assumed to be doing this due to lack of trust based on past racism, as you stated.

This is a good faith explanation with no data to support it. These are the same populations most likely to ignore all sorts of laws, rules, etc. I grew up in a trailer park, and the culture was one of die hard defiance to all forms of authority, no matter the cost, or how trivial the guidance/rules. I saw this same cultural trait at play in the inner city when I lived in DC as well.

The reality is that there are several dysfunctional cultures in the US, across multiple ethnic groups including my moron family, that are pathologically opposed to obeying any form of authority. They tend to also be highly fatalistic, have high teen pregnancy rates, high crime rates, etc. And although they are almost always poor, many other cultural groups in the US that are equally poor don't have these issues. Again, my family, and my relatives fall into this category. And so do the urban unvaccinated. Trailer parks and ghettos have more in common than you think.

I say this because you're hitting on a point that is going to really undermine NYC government:

A group of politicians who assume that unequal outcomes are driven by systemic racism are going to run headlong into a law that is going to disproportionately prevent Black and Latino New Yorkers from accessing businesses and restaurants. They are desperately going to continue with a narrative that absolves them of personal responsibility, and continue making the vaccine easier to access.

It's not going to work, and they will get rid of this as soon as they can, rather than go against their own systemic racism narrative.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#838

Post by nomdep » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 3:20 AM UTC

cochne wrote: post #749

nomdep wrote: post #715

Replace “COVID” for “AIDS” and see how irresponsible and even criminal is to complain when you might have it now and not know it. Fear about the vaccine, privacy, or how “minorities are going to suffer”? BS

I’m a little confused at this comment. Are you saying the AIDS vaccine (when it comes) should be mandatory for all sexually active people?

I’m saying that, if you know you might have AIDS, expecting you to use a condom is not tyrannical at all.

Also, yes, why not? Same as polio

Right now, without masks, every time you go outside is like having unprotected sex with drug addicts in the 90s. Worse in fact, because you are putting your life and the lives of others at risk knowingly.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#839

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 3:21 AM UTC

cochne wrote: post #749

nomdep wrote: post #715

Replace “COVID” for “AIDS” and see how irresponsible and even criminal is to complain when you might have it now and not know it. Fear about the vaccine, privacy, or how “minorities are going to suffer”? BS

I’m a little confused at this comment. Are you saying the AIDS vaccine (when it comes) should be mandatory for all sexually active people?

[deleted]

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#840

Post by 8note » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 3:23 AM UTC

makomk wrote: post #409

compsciphd wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Israel antibody levels are a way to get the "green passport". My parents get vaccinated in the US, and since israel doesn't recognize foreign vaccinations, when they visited Israel they had to get an antibody test to be let out quarantine early. As it should them having antibodies, they were let out. As Israel doesn't have data that says they were vaccinated, they were let out as "recovered" (even though as far as…

The US seems to have a weird ideological opposition to the idea that recovered people have immunity from Covid, even though all the science indicates that they do. There's even weird articles in the press from time to time boggling at the fact that people don't care about getting vaccinated despite having caught Covid before, as though that somehow gave them more reason to think they needed a vaccine rather than less…

The US is a place where if you incentivize getting covid, people will start trying to get covid