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NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

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Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#751

Post by ch4s3 »

reader_mode wrote: post #641
ch4s3 wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> mRNA is a new, unknown technology This is untrue, researchers have been testing various mRNA therapies on people for 30 years, with it being first done in vitro in 1990 then in vivo in 1992 [1]. Lipid nano particles were first used around the same time. > the vaccine was rushed faster to public access than any other vaccine before This is only true if you ignore the development of the mRNA vaccine platform for flu,…

>This isn't a meaningful claim for 2 key reasons. There has never been a vaccine that had serious side effects that did show up shortly after vaccination[2]. The history of mRNA treatments began as an experiment in gene therapy, but has largely ben abandoned because the effects never lasted long enough. As of 2020 this is an ongoing area of research[3]. No one has figure out how to stabilize mRNA so that it has long…

> So who's to say that immune system reaction triggered by vaccination isn't causing same kind of hard to detect damage

This is pure conjecture base on literally nothing. I don't mean to sound harsh, but it's just baseless. The immune response from the vaccine works like any other type of vaccine immune response. The mRNA vaccines cause you own cells machinery to build virus proteins at which point it works just like any viral subunit vaccine, which have existed since 1970 and include flu vaccines, hep A and B, and few other you may have had already. Billions of people have received those types of vaccines and they don't have long term negative effects, except rarely when someone has an acute reaction right after vaccination. It is true that some people have allergic reactions (a strong an destructive immune response), but they happen within about 4 hours and symptoms usually clear up in a few days.

If the COVID vaccines had some mysterious far off long term effects, it would be the first vaccine ever to do that, and there's no reason to suspect that might be the case. You may find this nature article interesting https://www.nature.com/articles/s41577-020-00479-7, it's about general vaccine immunology.

I'm not telling you that you need to get vaccinated, but the particular concern you're raising isn't something you should be worried about.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#752

Post by icelancer »

nostromo wrote: post #49
ragingrobot wrote: post #6

Without getting into the whole vaccine thing... People need to start protesting with their wallets. People need to talk less and act more. I work in NYC, in an "essential" service. In the beginning myself and other workers were threatened with discipline if we did not show up for work. We were told to go straight home, and stay inside, and do as little as necessary otherwise. Now, this is easy for me, as I am single…

As a former New Yorker... people should vote with their wallets and their feet . New York has become a pretty miserable place to live. And for the privilege of living in a miserable place you pay an exorbitant amount.

They are. Same in SF.

See also: Miami, Austin, Seattle housing prices.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#753

Post by mdorazio »

Barrin92 wrote: post #655
bingohbangoh wrote: post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Won’t there always be a variant popping up somewhere in some part of the world though? The idea that “if we all got vaccinated, we could have zero variants” reeks of “zero COVID” thinking

the dynamic is a feedback loop in either direction. More vaccinations means slowdown of spread which means slower rate of mutation and in turn easier ways to control the virus. Faster transmission means faster rate of mutations and having a harder time controlling the virus. 'Zero covid' or near-zero covid anyway does not 'reek' because it is perfectly attainable. The virus could be squashed pretty much completely. T…

> We have in fact eradicated one highly transmittable, airborne virus through a global vaccination effort already, namely smallpox. And that was almost half a century ago.

Exactly. It was half a century ago when the global population was half what it is today and travel (especially international) was massively lower as well. Also Smallpox had a much lower mutation rate than COVID does, and it's not transmissable until obvious symptoms develop (much different than COVID). Thinking the same strategy would work today is kind of a pipe dream.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#754

Post by Spooky23 »

timr wrote: post #129
alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

I am pro-vaccine (and fully vaccinated), but I don't support this policy at all. I don't believe this will have much of a net effect on vaccination rate, I believe it will disproportionately negatively impact poor and minority populations in NYC who already have a bad/mistrustful relationship with health care and government, and it is obviously a huge new governmental intrusion into our daily lives. It might well lea…

The core assumptions to your argument are that secondary infections of children are not of concern at all, and that future variants will have similar propagation and impact.

Limited evidence suggests that the delta variant may highly contagious among vaccinated populations and that lambda may be resistant to some vaccines.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#755

Post by anigbrowl »

grllierg wrote: post #255
mrfusion wrote: post #230

A bit off topic but you know what’s really jarring for me? For the past ten years I’ve agreed with the majority on hacker news on almost every issue. Software patents, voting rights, who knows what else. Everyone seemed to just find the right answer and it made sense. Then all of a sudden I’m in tiny minority because I believe people should be able to choose what they put in their own bodies. It really feels like a t…

This is real. There has been a total invasion of commies to HN over the past decade. I don't know if it's the schools to blame or what but something has definitely flipped. Hackers, as a demographic used to be hard-core libertarian (not necessarily a party member).

You've been here a decade but your account was created today and you've not read the guidelines? A little hard to credit.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#756

Post by colordrops »

pklausler wrote: post #693
colordrops wrote: post #679

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The flu virus can and has mutated in the past to become extremely deadly (see 1918). Why is it different this time? Why should it be treated differently than the flu, when it comes to variants? I think everyone should get vaccinated, but I want to fill in all logical holes to help this debate.

This time, we've got effective vaccines.

I don't follow - are you saying that the flu vaccine shouldn't be mandated because it's not effective, and if there was an effective one, it should be mandated?

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#757

Post by chitowneats »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #745
tracedddd wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We shouldn’t applaud the normalization of health status checks outside a border crossing. The world has a nasty trend of using crises to erode privacy and we collectively never recover - what was sold as temporary becomes permanent, endlessly extended and expanded. I’m not an antivaxer. The vaccine works and I believe it’s really safe. I’m vaccinated. Nearly anyone who is capable to go to a bar can easily go get vacc…

The supreme court ruled that it's legal to mandate vaccinations in 1905. Boston fined people for not getting a smallpox vaccine. This seems like a better option to me. Don't want to get vaccinated? Fine. Have a valid medical reason, pay a $2500 fee, or leave the city. >90% of people will just get vaccinated.

The result of this would be that many black and latino residents in, for example, the Bronx, would be fined more than they can afford or literally expelled from NYC.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#758

Post by anigbrowl »

908B64B197 wrote: post #376
drngdds wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest reason is disinformation coming from social media and conservative media outlets. That can't be fixed while respecting the first amendment.

So? Get conservative doctors to endorse it. Or show outcomes and make sure risks are mitigated/taken care of.

That approach is being tried with some positive results, but it doesn't alter the fact that there is a tide of disinformation being pumped out day after day, a phenomenon few seem willing to engage with.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#760

Post by walterbell »

ragingrobot wrote: post #6

Without getting into the whole vaccine thing... People need to start protesting with their wallets. People need to talk less and act more. I work in NYC, in an "essential" service. In the beginning myself and other workers were threatened with discipline if we did not show up for work. We were told to go straight home, and stay inside, and do as little as necessary otherwise. Now, this is easy for me, as I am single…

Since NYC was the epicenter of early Covid cases, it means a sizable subset of the population, especially essential workers, were already infected and recovered. These workers, who bore the risk of serving those sequestered at home, are now to be punished for their service? https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/558757-the-ill-advise...

> During the pandemic, the professional laptop class protected themselves by working from home while exposing the working class that brought them food and other goods. It is now the height of hypocrisy to recognize immunity from vaccinations but not immunity from those exposed while serving the laptop class.

https://brownstone.org/articles/forced-medicine-the-new-fron...

> Consider this from the Wall Street Journal. “Children under the age of 12, who cannot be vaccinated according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, would likely not be excluded from the program’s outlined indoor activities ... So Broadway shows of children’s plays are permanently banned? Families cannot eat in restaurants? Kids under 12 cannot go to indoor events at all? Is this serious? Media questioned New York officials about all of this, and it truly appeared as if the geniuses running the city had completely forgotten to think about children at all. The question alone seemed to take them by surprise. If they exempt them, there is already a problem. Why include a 12-year-old but exclude an unvaccinated 13-year old?

> Regardless, this is an appalling and unthinkable amount of compulsion to impose for the sake of a vaccine that the willing have long ago accepted and about which the remainders have either grave doubts or hard-core opposition. People figure that it will be challenged in court but that takes time and money, and it is not at all clear how courts will respond. In the end, though lawsuits are fabulous and there should be many more, I don’t see how they stop this tyranny. I’m not sure what precisely does but I know this much: a people and culture that acquiesces to this level of imposition is not well suited for the preservation of liberty or civilization in general. This really does feel like a new chapter in the history of American rights violations.

There are some advocating to expand the scope of the No Fly list, https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/unvaccinated-people-belong...

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