Please Bring Back Our Downvotes: Society Desperately Needs It • Hacker News Board

Re: Please Bring Back Our Downvotes: Society Desperately Needs It

#551

Post by fsckboy » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 7:17 AM UTC

musicale wrote: post #480

Pxtl wrote: post #176

I've noticed a difference between downvoting and non-downvoting discussions systems. In downvoting discussions, the top post will represent the consensus of the people engaged in the discussion. Note that this isn't "the truth" or "the consensus of the community" but of the people engaged on the subject. For example, if you see an otherwise-liberal community discussing gun-rights, the gun owners within that community…

> In downvoting discussions, the top post will represent the consensus of the people engaged in the discussion I wish I saw more consensus - things that are agreed upon by multiple sides - but in practice I tend to see a tyranny of the majority - whoever can win the upvote vs. downvote contest. The winning side rises to the top, while dissenting voices are silenced. One sensible thing that I thought HN did but I don'…

>sensible thing that...HN did...is to suggest that downvoting isn't supposed to be a "dislike" button

reddit says that too, as do other discussion forums, to no effect, same as here.

Re: Please Bring Back Our Downvotes: Society Desperately Needs It

#552

Post by unethical_ban » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 12:34 AM UTC

dTal wrote: post #537

telxos wrote: post #531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO there should be 3 voting options I agree, I disagree, Noise/bullshit The problem to me is I want to read things I don't agree with but I don't want to read bullshit. I would especially love to read ideas with an even amount of agree / disagree but a low bullshit amount. Not just sum all this to zero and hide it. That is terrible.

Since upvoting presumably promotes a post, and "noise/bullshit" presumably penalizes it, what would "I disagree" actually do ? You might say that HN already has this system, distinguishing between downvoting and "flagging".

It would presumably have a lower weight.

If "Agree" is +1, "Disagree" is -1, "Shit take/bad faith/troll" is -2, and "report" is threats of violence or spam.

Re: Please Bring Back Our Downvotes: Society Desperately Needs It

#553

Post by durbleflorp » Sat, Aug 07, 2021, 4:51 PM UTC

nescioquid wrote: post #471

durbleflorp wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I agree both parties are severely problematic, don't feel they're equally problematic. I vote for third party candidates with policy I actually agree with when it isn't going to negatively affect me or others when they inevitably lose. The sad reality is that FPTP makes strategic voting necessary if you want to have any kind of power. In addition to the issues you mentioned we need score or ranked choice…

> Voting for a third party candidate is effectively throwing your vote away in a protest no one will ever hear in a FPTP system. Voting for a 3rd party is not a de facto protest vote, nor is it throwing it away in any case. What power do you get for voting for a party not aligned with your interests? If a third party should achieve a 5% vote, they are eligible for federal funds and would have a big impact on ballot a…

I actually voted for a third party candidate in 2020 because I knew I could do it without supporting Trump and didn't feel either candidate represented my views.

I was only able to do that because I knew my vote wouldn't ultimately matter in my state's contest though.

In score or ranked choice voting I could both articulate my actual preference in a way that was publicly visible and still make the strategic vote(s) I needed to get the least bad of likely options.

FPTP is one of the least expressive voting systems you could have, and it is objectively terrible for third parties. This isn't a controversial opinion, it's what that vast majority of political scientists agree with.

Third parties are irrelevant in American politics and will continue to be unless we change our voting system (and campaign finance).