Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk • Hacker News Board

Re: Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

#301

Post by jimmygrapes » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 10:49 PM UTC

Causality1 wrote: post #3

Todd said she had gone to the overpass to distribute sandwiches, potato chips and water to people living at the freeway encampment. Todd’s lawsuit accuses the city of allowing the encampment at the 101 overpass on Gower to remain for a “substantial amount of time,” Why is she distributing supplies to a group of people she wants the city to throw out?

Regardless of noble intent, "don't feed the wildlife" signs exist for the primary reason of preventing recurrent gathering. Humans aren't so different.

Re: Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

#302

Post by awsthro00945 » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 10:50 PM UTC

fxtentacle wrote: post #297

awsthro00945 wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That still leaves the same question, though. In the US, many municipalities designate certain areas as government-sanctioned camping grounds where "economic refugees" can stay while they don't have a permanent place to live. Does that count as "temporary housing" and can we exclude them from the homeless numbers as well? Massaging the numbers seems silly to me. At it's core, we're talking about how to solve the issue…

If I understand things correctly, the LA tent-livers are homeless and also unhoused, but the German syrian refuges are only homeless, but not unhoused. They have an apartment with shower, wifi, and a shared cooking area. They are counted as homeless because they cannot afford to pay for their own home yet, which makes sense if you just ran away from a war. But they can apply for jobs online and they can shower for th…

I dunno the last time you went and visited a homeless encampment in the US, but many of them do indeed have showers and internet, too (sometimes provided by the government, other times just because these tent cities are legitimate cities).

I've seen a lot of tents with cooking areas too, and some even with portable generators, TVs, and fridges.

So can we exclude them from the homeless statistics yet?

Re: Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

#303

Post by woodruffw » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 10:54 PM UTC

spiderice wrote: post #290

8note wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still something that can be stolen

I feel like at this point people are just trying to come up with problems for the sake of it. Debit cards have pins. You can't just steal someone's debit card and go drain all the money. Sure there are other really hard issues to solve with homelessness. But their debit card getting stolen isn't one of them.

My debit card has a contactless pad. I think there’s a transaction limit on it of a few hundred dollars, but someone could very easily tap it and drain my account if that was all I had.

But even that misses the point: not everybody has the means to wait 5-7 days for their bank to mail them a replacement card, even if no money is actually taken from the account. This is compounded when you consider that most of the companies that offer cheap banking accounts don’t have great branch service.

Re: Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

#304

Post by emodendroket » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 10:57 PM UTC

nradov wrote: post #269

emodendroket wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think people are sponsoring visas for dishwashers.

Actually they do. Seasonal resorts typically hire a lot of their kitchen staff on H-2B visas.

That's true, but if he's talking about walking around LA it's not really seasonal resorts that are in question.

Re: Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

#305

Post by cloverich » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 10:58 PM UTC

awsthro00945 wrote: post #296

Overton-Window wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do yourself a favour and volunteer at your nearest shelter for an afternoon.

Do yourself a favor and don't make assumptions about me. I've volunteered at homeless shelters before. At a previous company, I was in charge of working directly with a homeless shelter to organize volunteer events for my colleagues. I have firsthand experience at homeless shelters that have successfully become shelters where people really want to be there rather than on the street because of the services and environ…

it would be constructive to provide some examples of concrete things municipalities can do, and that we can learn about so we can hold them accountable.

Re: Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

#306

Post by tdfx » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 11:00 PM UTC

cduzz wrote: post #289

tdfx wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, their situation does prevent them from jumping into a white collar, professional life with a good credit score and personal references. But I don't think that's what anyone is suggesting. Most of the problems you stated are not problems for the type of labor that is offered to homeless people. Jobs for construction, landscaping, moving etc. with a truck that picks you up and drops you off. Usually done…

I would ask you to think through the logistics of managing any of your proposed solutions when you don't have a safe place to sleep or store your stuff. Instructions like 1) leave your stuff some place out of your control 2) somehow get to a parking lot where people pick up day workers 3) hang out with day laborers hoping to get a job 4) get in a random truck on the promise that someone will pay you 5) get driven som…

I can only speak to the situations I've encountered, but:

(1) There's churches nearby that offer lockers for the homeless

(2) They don't need to go anywhere, these jobs drive around looking for them

(3) See #2

(4) Illegal immigrants do this every day, and they often don't even speak the same language

(5) Seems OK.

(6) Seems OK.

(7) Seems reasonable the business operator will want to continue the arrangement if they did a good job, so this seems very likely.

(8) See #7

(9) See #1

(10) This is probably the most difficult part

(11) Shelters in my city are underutilized almost all of the year except during inclement weather. They offer showers, cot beds, and basic food.

I'm not saying that it's easy being homeless, or that making the transition into suburban homeowner is easy or even practical for them. But the problem is not a lack of available jobs (the jobs are there) or shelter (homeless shelters are underutilized). I'm fine with spending money on a compassionate solution, but only if we're solving the right problem.

Re: Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

#307

Post by fxtentacle » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 11:02 PM UTC

awsthro00945 wrote: post #302

fxtentacle wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I understand things correctly, the LA tent-livers are homeless and also unhoused, but the German syrian refuges are only homeless, but not unhoused. They have an apartment with shower, wifi, and a shared cooking area. They are counted as homeless because they cannot afford to pay for their own home yet, which makes sense if you just ran away from a war. But they can apply for jobs online and they can shower for th…

I dunno the last time you went and visited a homeless encampment in the US, but many of them do indeed have showers and internet, too (sometimes provided by the government, other times just because these tent cities are legitimate cities). I've seen a lot of tents with cooking areas too, and some even with portable generators, TVs, and fridges. So can we exclude them from the homeless statistics yet?

Not yet. I'd add two more criteria:

1. Can they safely store valuables? If you have an apartment, it's reasonably easy to keep your laptop around. I'd wager that in a tent it'll get stolen eventually.

2. Is this temporary? The German government is expecting refuges to regularly visit the job center and to apply to job openings or to attend language school to improve their employability.

So if someone can shower, has internet access, can keep a work laptop without it getting stolen, and has been homeless for But my impression (based only on pictures in the newspaper) is that this won't include many tents in LA.

Re: Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

#308

Post by KyleJune » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 11:02 PM UTC

slickrick216 wrote: post #281

standardUser wrote: post #97

I've almost been hit by cars in SF for the exact same reason. Cities need to designate places for encampments to stop them from blocking sidewalks or disrupting residential areas. And they need to rapidly remove any that do block public access or disrupt residences.

They have they’re called homeless shelters. Cities shouldn’t actively endorse camping by marking areas and if you think they should would you like to volunteer the streets outside and surrounding your house. Homeless people should be interviewed and those with mental illnesses treated by the state as they are objectively sick people in need of help. Homeless people under 18 should be taken into care. Homeless people…

I agreed with your first 2 paragraphs but for the last one, I think we should be treating addiction as a mental illness. Instead of just locking them up in jail or leaving them on the streets, we should be getting them help.

Re: Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

#309

Post by bsder » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 11:04 PM UTC

emodendroket wrote: post #184

vondur wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of these people are mentally ill, in addition to most likely being addicted to drugs. They can probably never hold down a steady job.

Just not true.

I suspect what's happening here is that you two are conflating different groups.

If you include the invisible homeless in the group, you can probably say that the majority of the homeless don't have mental health issues. It takes functional mental skill to not be a visible homeless person.

The highly visible homeless probably have significant mental health issues. Mental health issues have a nasty way of completely destroying your social network. If someone doesn't get medical help before they hit bottom, they're in real trouble.

The biggest problem is that the "homeless" aren't a monolithic bloc. So, Amdahl's Law is at work--even if you completely eliminate one class of homelessness--you still have 80% of the problem left, it looks like you didn't do anything and everybody gets angry at the waste of money.

Re: Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

#310

Post by OldTimeCoffee » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 11:04 PM UTC

parineum wrote: post #244

cduzz wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you cash a paycheck if you are without an address or a bank account? How do you establish that you are a citizen and are legally able to take a job if you are unable to safely store your documents? How do you get health care, inclusive of mental health care, if you are unable to pay for it? If you are without a secure residence, how do you know when to wake up, how do you clean up, put on fresh clothing, and g…

>How do you cash a paycheck if you are without an address or a bank account? You simply sign the back and take it to the bank and they will give you cash. >How do you establish that you are a citizen and are legally able to take a job if you are unable to safely store your documents? I honestly have no idea. >How do you get health care, inclusive of mental health care, if you are unable to pay for it? The answer is t…

I agree with most of what you wrote, but there are a couple of things you may not have considered.

> You simply sign the back and take it to the bank and they will give you cash.

If you do not have an account there, they will charge you a fee to cash a check. The amount of the fee is typically ~$8, but it varies by bank. Some checks are issued by banks that don't have local branches, this is more common with larger companies. Government checks are also a tricky situation. It's really not as easy as 'go to the bank and they will give you cash'.

>...Documents... >I honestly have no idea.

You don't need to. You don't need to present a social security card to an employer, as long as they know their SSN. The SSA will help them verify for free: https://www.ssa.gov/employer/SSNcard.htm Otherwise, it's storing a plastic card for ID. It's likely they have one, as state ID cards are permanent. If they don't that is a problem that can be solved.

>...Health care... >The answer is to get a job which is an obvious catch 22.

In the US, they qualify for Medicaid. Medicaid includes mental health services.

>...public transit... >By using public transit? I don't understand the question.

Public transit costs money. Where I live, 1/2 off or ~ $31/month for a Medicaid recipient.

>The biggest problem, I think, is housing.

The biggest problem is getting people into the system so they can get assistance. Once they get a case worker and start getting aid, they can more easily get back on their feet. People are homeless for different reasons, some are more easily solved than others.