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NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

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Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#601

Post by pmarreck »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #332
asdff wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We could honestly probably save billions in healthcare costs if we mandated a yearly physical and cancer screening. It would lift our economy catching these costly diseases and health issues while they are still easily and cheaply treatable.

You'd also save billions, if you forced diets on people, forbid cigarettes, stopped selling sugar water with colorings, forbid driving, forbid skiing, hiking, climbing, and all other dangerous sports, keep social isolation every flu season, forbid casual sex (stds, unwanted children),... you'd just somehow have to stop suicides in the end.

The solution here is for healthcare coverage to offer you a discount if you submit to any testing that the parent comment said was mandatory. That gives you the freedom to take on more risk at personal financial cost to yourself

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#602

Post by jb775 »

starlust2 wrote: post #391
paganel wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "zero covid spaces" As a tangent, I wish we would get rid of this "zero covid spaces" mania, makes having a reasonable discussion between those who want to continue our lives as normal as possible given the circumstances (I am one of them) and those who want to get back to an illusory "pre-covid normal" basically impossible. One of my grand-mothers died of tuberculosis about 10 years ago. Imo it's as nasty a death…

The U.S. only has around 600 deaths from TB per year. Covid was 100x more deaths with lockdowns and other restrictions factored in. Not even remotely the same thing.

Your covid numbers are 100x skewed and essentially fake.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#603

Post by barbazoo »

thehappypm wrote: post #461
afavour wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen this objection a few times and I'm really not sure why anyone that had COVID would be all that fussed about getting the shot. We don't know how long antibodies from having already contracted it last for, so why not get the vaccine?

If you've had COVID you are more likely to have an adverse reaction to the vaccine, it's just how the immune system reactions. If I knew I'd have 2 bad sick days to take 2 doses of a vaccine that I have already beaten.. meh.

> If you've had COVID you are more likely to have an adverse reaction to the vaccine, it's just how the immune system reactions

Can you point to anything that backs up that claim?

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#604

Post by esyir »

stefan_ wrote: post #413
stickfigure wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Residents of the US have self-selected into two cohorts: 1) People that will get resistance via vaccines 2) People that will get resistance via infection Some 30-40% of the US population decided on #2. Roughly 0.7% of them will die because of that decision, but this is exactly what they are asking for ! If you are in cohort #1, you really don't have a lot to worry about from the virus. Why are you denying people the…

The result will be 3) everyone will be infected with a vastly more contagious, possibly more deadly variant that is resistant to vaccine. Your scenario isn't an option. It's not "over" because it has run its course in a single wave.

Looking at the history of disease, that's pretty unlikely. Traditionally, the optimal virus is going to get more contagious, but far less deadly; a disease that kills its host rapidly generally burns itself out.

Now, the consequences of getting to that more optimal virus I'm a lot more hazy about.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#605

Post by [deleted] »

ashtonkem wrote: post #380
clukic wrote: post #197

Vaccine requirements have been in place for decades. For pre-K in NYC kids need shots for PCV and Hib. For kindergarten they need more shots: Hep B, Polio, Chickenpox, and Measles, Mumps and Rubella. Going to middle school? Then you'll need more shots, the TDAP and meningococcal conjugate. These are all vaccine requirements. Is it an invasion or privacy to demand children's records? Is it the nanny state? We could go…

Honestly, I think a lot of people here without kids have absolutely no idea that you need to prove immunization in order to attend school. What’s funnier still to me is men (it always seems to be men) outraged that they might need to prove vaccination in order to send their kids back to school, publicly admitting that they’ve been fobbing that work off on their spouse.

[deleted]

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#606

Post by vkou »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #552
vkou wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vaccinated people produce a much lower viral load. The lower the viral load that your body takes in, when you get infected, the less serious your symptoms/the lower your risk of hospitalization and death.

Researchers found that vaccinated people can produce the same viral load as one exhibiting symptoms (and unvaccinated).

Can, or do? How frequently? How much lower is their viral load, on average, than an unvaccinated person's?

You are either making a truly extraordinary claim, or are supporting my point. If vaccination significantly reduces viral load in 95% of cases, it's true that it might not reduce it for everyone. But it makes a huge difference, in terms of public health. Both epidemics, and viral infections are a numbers game. Reduce the denominator in an exponent, or a constant multiplier, and you get the difference between life and death.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#607

Post by FreakyT »

TomVDB wrote: post #182
SirensOfTitan wrote: post #39

To preface: I got the vaccine months ago (as soon as I had access), I'm a big believer in vaccines. With that being said, this policy doesn't sit well with me. None of the currently available vaccines in the US are FDA approved. Of course, a lot of people have received those vaccines, but I also don't necessarily fault individuals for feeling hesitant (the nuance here is that I think people ought to get the vaccine).…

> None of the currently available vaccines in the US are FDA approved. On one hand, I can't wait for the Pfizer vaccine to be fully FDA approved in September. On the other, everybody who uses that argument today will simply forget about it and move goalposts.

Exactly this -- people have just seized on the the "not FDA approved" line because it sounds reasonable if you don't really understand how FDA approval works or what it really means. As soon as it's approved, the goalposts will absolutely move to "well, I don't trust the FDA".

For those "waiting for FDA approval", have you ever taken a vitamin supplement? Guess what, you're putting not-FDA-approved chemicals into your body.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#608

Post by jb775 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #103
polote wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This measure can't be a way to create "zero covid spaces" because people who are vaccinated can still transmit the virus (even though less than unvaccinated people, but it doesnt seem to be a 90% reduction either). So the goal here is to increase the vaccination rate. It seems pretty weird to ask the indoor business owners to be the ones who are in charge of controlling that the vaccination rate is increasing and to…

> the goal here is to increase the vaccination rate The goal is to avoid overloading the hospital system. Vaccinated people spreading the Delta variant amongst each other is not going to do that. Unvaccinated people getting sick will.

HOSPITALS HAVE LITERALLY BEEN EMPTY SINCE DAY 1.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#609

Post by ttobbaybbob »

SirensOfTitan wrote: post #39

To preface: I got the vaccine months ago (as soon as I had access), I'm a big believer in vaccines. With that being said, this policy doesn't sit well with me. None of the currently available vaccines in the US are FDA approved. Of course, a lot of people have received those vaccines, but I also don't necessarily fault individuals for feeling hesitant (the nuance here is that I think people ought to get the vaccine).…

I don't understand calling it a nanny state. The government punishes you for not wearing a seat belt, children are excluded from school if they aren't vaccinated, drunk driving is illegal. Other than fda approval is the covid vaccine any different? if you're worried about the long term side effects and thus choose not to get vaccinated shouldn't you expect to not participate fully/freely in society (a la children's vaccines or repeat drunk-driving offenders)?

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#610

Post by AndrewBissell »

analyte123 wrote: post #81
bern4444 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vaccination in NY/NYC is easily proven. Picture of your vaccine card is sufficent and there's also the excelsior pass which is a QR code. Super easy to get from a city/state website after entering a few details (think name, when your last vaccine was, which vaccine etc). This can be downloaded as an image, into apple wallet etc. For those who chose not to, they can stick to carrying around their vaccine card (just as…

Getting a vaccine to cross an international border is not the same as getting a vaccine to walk to a bar on your own street in your own country. Besides, people who have not had the Covid vaccine are not directly preventing anyone from enjoying life. The people are either choosing to not enjoy life themselves, or their government is putting restrictions on them (and then they are obeying them) while blaming the restr…

Just gonna repost something I saw on Twitter that summarizes this perfectly:

government: take these shots or you'll never get your lives back

person who keeps up with the news: how DARE the people who won't take their shots hold us hostage like this!

https://twitter.com/gnocchiwizard/status/1419721365276475394

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