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NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

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Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#591

Post by BrianOnHN »

throwaway842384 wrote: post #343
sprafa wrote: post #94

By not getting vaccinated you are pushing the onus of responsibility to society. When you occupy a bed in a hospital for a preventable disease (like covid post-vaccine) you are a detriment to society. You are occupying precious resources because you were dumb. Just dumb. No ifs or buts - we need to start calling out stupidity again. We already handle people occupying hospital resources with self inflicted diseases, l…

Now let's do obesity. From the CDC [1]: > From 1999–2000 through 2017 –2018, US obesity prevalence increased from 30.5% to 42.4%. During the same time, the prevalence of severe obesity increased from 4.7% to 9.2%. > Obesity-related conditions include heart disease, stroke, type 2 diabetes and certain types of cancer. These are among the leading causes of preventable, premature death. > The estimated annual medical co…

> Also, if the government really cared about the health of the population, why aren't they mandating exercise or dietary health?

This is an grossly exaggerated and absurd comparison.

Exercise nor diet are as easy to do well as getting the vaccine.

Give me a break.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#592

Post by cratermoon »

chitowneats wrote: post #148
cratermoon wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people who are vaccinated can still transmit the virus Just FYI, a vaccinated person, like anyone else, can only transmit the virus if they have a symptomatic breakthrough case.

So you're saying there's no such thing as asymptomatic spread of COVID-19? Isn't asymptomatic spread a primary reason for the unprecedented restrictions and mass testing? Edit: Down voters, I would appreciate an explanation for the down votes. Am I missing something simple or is OP mistaken?

You know, I'd almost forgotten about asymptomatic spread, and I'm glad you asked. My assertion about vaccinated was based on a non-scientific interpretation of something I read. I'm afraid I lack the expertise to really answer in depth. So the best I can do is point to the sources that address it. "The viral load in these breakthrough cases was about three to four times lower than the viral load among infected people who were unvaccinated" https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-crucial-vacci...

So as best I understand it, the vaccinated are orders of a magnitude less likely to be asymptomatic spreaders, compared to the unvaccinated. As with pretty much everything relating to disease and epidemiology, there are very few absolutes.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#593

Post by wtfzse »

AndrewBissell wrote: post #114
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the goal here is to increase the vaccination rate The goal is to avoid overloading the hospital system. Vaccinated people spreading the Delta variant amongst each other is not going to do that. Unvaccinated people getting sick will.

> The goal is to avoid overloading the hospital system. This is clearly not the goal -- there have been no additions to hospital capacity since the pandemic started in earnest 17 months ago.

Remember the hospital ship and the stadium hospital and all those hospitals they stood up and had to take down because no one was using them?

Remember the goddamn tiktok nurses?

Seriously the level of propaganda warfare being waged on the American populace is entirely INSANE.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#594

Post by jhgb »

readflaggedcomm wrote: post #579
jhgb wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because it's highly tyrannical? I hope that one day you'll experience an actual tyranny for comparison. Something like Belarus or North Korea. > this also forces you to carry "ID" pretty much everywhere Yes, because US car drivers don't already do that? And pretty much anyone in developed countries in the world.

Not everybody drives. Identification for voting is onerous enough, not to mention for groceries.

> Identification for voting is onerous enough

This makes absolutely no sense for anyone not living in the US. You could as well be speaking Klingon.

> not to mention for groceries

This makes even less sense.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#595

Post by notJim »

caeril wrote: post #569
alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

> you might be opposed to this policy if: { 1...2...3 } You listed three reasons that people might be opposed to the vaccine itself , not merely the policy. None of these are applicable to my particular group, of which there are many: 4. You are pro-vaccine and anti-covid, but strictly opposed to insane and tyrannical government overreach by the very same people who literally murdered tens of thousands of elderly nur…

This emotionally charged language isn't helpful to a rational discussion. I think your comment would be stronger without it.

> I am fully vaccinated, but the research is clear - I can carry an infection just as effectively in my nasal cavity as my antivax cousin. Showing my card at the door does PRECISELY NOTHING to prevent spread.

I'm pretty sure this is untrue, but not positive. The communication has been very confusing. As I understand it, you can get a high viral load, but it declines much more rapidly in vaccinated people.

> mandatory weight loss for the obese.

This would obviously be far far more invasive than getting two shots. Why support this form of government tyranny, in your words, rather than another?

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#596

Post by jhgb »

jcadam wrote: post #580
jhgb wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because it's highly tyrannical? I hope that one day you'll experience an actual tyranny for comparison. Something like Belarus or North Korea. > this also forces you to carry "ID" pretty much everywhere Yes, because US car drivers don't already do that? And pretty much anyone in developed countries in the world.

> I hope that one day you'll experience an actual tyranny for comparison. Something like Belarus or North Korea. Cool. We should submit to any and all amounts of government overreach and abuse of power until our rulers decide to go full Pol-Pot. Then we can say "Hey, wait a minute." The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.

Don't trip on that strawman.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#597

Post by summerlight »

stickfigure wrote: post #91
alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

Residents of the US have self-selected into two cohorts: 1) People that will get resistance via vaccines 2) People that will get resistance via infection Some 30-40% of the US population decided on #2. Roughly 0.7% of them will die because of that decision, but this is exactly what they are asking for ! If you are in cohort #1, you really don't have a lot to worry about from the virus. Why are you denying people the…

> The good news is that almost exclusively, they're going to be the ones dying.

Oh, this is not even remotely true. Our medical infrastructure is a limited, contended resources. When the medical system got overrun for several month, the risk is not only passed to those anti-vaxxers but also to those who with serious other medical conditions.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#599

Post by [deleted] »

trident5000 wrote: post #258
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But we're okay requiring masks, and we're okay putting the onus on businesses to enforce that . I'd much rather enforce vaccinations than masks.

Or you could...require neither at this point in time. If you're worried about covid then get the vaccination. For people who want to take a risk, let them do it. I have the vaccine so why do I care if Im around people that have covid? We believe in science right?

[deleted]

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#600

Post by swader999 »

tayo42 wrote: post #565
tracedddd wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We shouldn’t applaud the normalization of health status checks outside a border crossing. The world has a nasty trend of using crises to erode privacy and we collectively never recover - what was sold as temporary becomes permanent, endlessly extended and expanded. I’m not an antivaxer. The vaccine works and I believe it’s really safe. I’m vaccinated. Nearly anyone who is capable to go to a bar can easily go get vacc…

Do you not show your ID at a bar? What privacy are you giving up here?

Do they scan it with a call to the cloud to verify it? That's the real threat here - continuous tracking, ability to turn it off or geo fence you to a certain area.
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