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Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

latimes.com

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Re: Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

#251

Post by spiderice »

rezendi wrote: post #173
simonsarris wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First please note that America has fewer homeless people than many European nations or Canada. Per 10K: Germany......79 UK...........46 Sweden.......36 Canada.......36 Netherlands..23 France.......21 USA..........17 (via Wikipedia, stats for differing years unfortunately but gives a sense of magnitude) It's mostly that the US homeless population concentrates in very few areas. > How do you reconcile that with the fac…

This is wildly incorrect. As of Dec 2019, there were 5,000 "unsheltered" / "sleeping rough" people in the UK, population ~65,000,000, according to The Economist (cite: https://www.economist.com/britain/2019/12/18/on-any-one-wint... ) which was fewer than the number in San Francisco, population ~800,000 (cite: https://hsh.sfgov.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/ExecutiveSu... ).

You completely changed what is being talked about. GP said nothing about "unsheltered/sleeping rough". GP said "homeless", so I'm not sure why you're suggesting that your statistics disprove what GP said. A homeless person in a shelter is still homeless.

I have no idea if GP's statistics are accurate, but nothing you said proves they aren't.

Re: Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

#252

Post by xnyan »

foxpurple wrote: post #175
legitster wrote: post #109

This is becoming such a frustrating issue. As an advocate of public spaces and parks, it's kind of heartbreaking that maybe 1/3 of public spaces in our town are no longer usable for all - they have more or less become private spaces for the homeless. I don't have much respect for communities that solve the issue by just "kicking them out" and passing the problem onto others, but it is almost becoming unacceptably com…

IMO the city should provide enough homeless shelters for everyone and then just make homelessness illegal. So if you are found sleeping in a tent you get referred to the nearest shelter and if you refuse you get arrested. We can not allow homelessness to exist because it makes public spaces unsafe like you mention. Homeless shelters can also help by making it hard for them to continue their drug addictions.

Even in the best case, homeless shelters have serious downsides (to put it mildly) that you may not have considered.

-Have a pet? Not coming with you. A stint at the pound, likely followed by euthanization due to overcrowding.

-How about a family? If you can even get into a shelter, odds are it's going to be male or women and children.

-Shelters are often unsafe and filled with people who have untreated problems. Violence is a real risk.

-Very little space for personal possessions, high incidence of theft.

>Homeless shelters can also help by making it hard for them to continue their drug addictions.

I would strongly encourage you to volunteer at a homeless shelter. Not only do they need the help, you'll learn that while drugs are restricted at the shelter, it's a fantastic place to meet people who use drugs and find new sources of drugs.

Re: Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

#253

Post by golemiprague »

foxpurple wrote: post #175
legitster wrote: post #109

This is becoming such a frustrating issue. As an advocate of public spaces and parks, it's kind of heartbreaking that maybe 1/3 of public spaces in our town are no longer usable for all - they have more or less become private spaces for the homeless. I don't have much respect for communities that solve the issue by just "kicking them out" and passing the problem onto others, but it is almost becoming unacceptably com…

IMO the city should provide enough homeless shelters for everyone and then just make homelessness illegal. So if you are found sleeping in a tent you get referred to the nearest shelter and if you refuse you get arrested. We can not allow homelessness to exist because it makes public spaces unsafe like you mention. Homeless shelters can also help by making it hard for them to continue their drug addictions.

Those people should not get arrested, they should be in a mental hospital. It used to be like that in the old days but then some legalisation stopped the practice of putting mental people into mental asylums so now they roam the streets. Maybe it was because those asylums were horrible but it doesn't have to be like that, we can just improve those places. There are enough shelters for homeless people but you can't force them, we need to force them into something, but not into a prison.

Re: Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

#254

Post by mdorazio »

fumar wrote: post #70
1270018080 wrote: post #26

Many Californians are struggling with the ultimate internal battle: Posturing about caring for the homeless while doing everything in their power to prevent housing from getting built. Because density "hurts the vibe of the neighborhood." Outsiders make fun of California for being overly progressive, but it's entirely surface level. Most are conservative beyond performative actions.

How much housing would need to be built for homelessness resolution?

In LA alone we would need over half a million units of affordable housing [1]. Good luck with that when communities fight new development of any kind every chance they possibly can.

[1] https://www.lahsa.org/news?article=726-2020-greater-los-ange...

Re: Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

#255

Post by bingidingi »

legitster wrote: post #109

This is becoming such a frustrating issue. As an advocate of public spaces and parks, it's kind of heartbreaking that maybe 1/3 of public spaces in our town are no longer usable for all - they have more or less become private spaces for the homeless. I don't have much respect for communities that solve the issue by just "kicking them out" and passing the problem onto others, but it is almost becoming unacceptably com…

some small cities literally buy their homeless bus tickets to get rid of them, and their politicians point to the places they send them as liberalism run amok… how do you even undo such callousness

Re: Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

#256

Post by JadeNB »

Sebguer wrote: post #48
tigertigerbb wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Anybody would please be able to point me at what I'm missing? I strongly suspect that this is absolutely the wrong place to ask. I do remember a time without homeless people however.

There were millions of unhoused during the great depression, and homelessness didn't magically disappear after that (and obviously existed before it, too), so I have no idea how you could possibly remember a 'time without homeless people'. What you probably mean is a time when they were brutally beaten and forced to live in even worse conditions than now, which based on your other comment about "having to be mean to…

tigertigerbb's other comments on this post, including the one referenced by Sebguer, for anyone who thinks, as I did at first, that they were coming from a position that was merely uninformed, rather than actively hostile to the homeless:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28066347

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28066377

Re: Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

#257

Post by awsthro00945 »

slimsag wrote: post #243
foxpurple wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO the city should provide enough homeless shelters for everyone and then just make homelessness illegal. So if you are found sleeping in a tent you get referred to the nearest shelter and if you refuse you get arrested. We can not allow homelessness to exist because it makes public spaces unsafe like you mention. Homeless shelters can also help by making it hard for them to continue their drug addictions.

Homelessness is already illegal in most places. They are already often referred to the nearest shelter. They are already frequently arrested. Homeless shelter's don't help, they're ridiculously dangerous to be in. You need to do more research on the topic. VICE has some decent documentaries on the issue.

>Homeless shelter's don't help, they're ridiculously dangerous to be in.

Then solve this problem.

The problem I constantly see with homelessness in America is that municipalities constantly half ass every attempt to fix it, and then throw up their hands and say "well that didn't work, I guess there's nothing we can do!" Building homeless shelters without making them safe places to be is the perfect example of half-assing. I mean ffs, it's in the name: shelter. A homeless shelter not being safe doesn't mean that homeless shelters don't work, it just means your execution was shit.

Re: Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

#258

Post by coding123 »

jeffbee wrote: post #55
Fellshard wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue isn't solely lack of housing.

Abundant housing is a necessary condition for solving homelessness.

There is also an abundant number of second houses that people own that are not rented that could house every single homeless person 25 to 40 times over.

Re: Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

#259

Post by mdorazio »

Fellshard wrote: post #46
1270018080 wrote: post #26

Many Californians are struggling with the ultimate internal battle: Posturing about caring for the homeless while doing everything in their power to prevent housing from getting built. Because density "hurts the vibe of the neighborhood." Outsiders make fun of California for being overly progressive, but it's entirely surface level. Most are conservative beyond performative actions.

The issue isn't solely lack of housing.

It’s by far the #1 cause. People lose their job or get priced out of their home and then either can’t afford to move elsewhere or don’t want to leave their support network, so they just… stay. LAHSA tends to provide good data via their annual surveys:

https://www.lahsa.org/news?article=726-2020-greater-los-ange...

Re: Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

#260

Post by parineum »

pengaru wrote: post #199
dragontamer wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a difference between chronic homelessness (which is probably caused by mental illness or drug abuse), and "typical" homelessness. "Typical" people are homeless for only a few days before someone in their social circle rescues them (and its not a happy story either: it could be that they tried living on the streets but ultimately decided that living with their alcoholic and abusive husband is superior to livin…

> a pathway should be figured out to try to find a way to make them productive members of society. I think this attitude is a major component of the fundamental problem. Why not just accept that some proportion of society is unproductive for whatever reason, and spend tax dollars to keep them minimally housed, bathed, and clothed. Period. It's not extravagant, it's not spacious, it's just a cramped SRO any citizen ca…

I think your view of "productive" is too narrow. It doesn't just have to mean "produced tax revenue".
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