Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk • Hacker News Board

Re: Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

#161

Post by AngryData » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 9:49 PM UTC

jdavis703 wrote: post #135

kazinator wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One factor is that employers don't want some scruffy, stinking homeless person anywhere near their business. Basically, it's a problem of hygiene and grooming. To apply for just about any job, a given homeless person would have to take several baths, get a haircut, shave, and get into clean clothes. Somehow, that is an insoluble problem. Secondly, some of these jobs pay so shitty that if you've figured out how to liv…

I would urge you to do some volunteer work with homeless people. Most aren’t scruffy and stinky. I think what’s happening is the scruffy and stinky people are the ones that get your attention while the homeless security guard or homeless Uber driver escapes your attention.

Even if they aren't scruffy and stinky, if someone finds out you are homeless many of them will judge you like you are scruffy and stinky regardless. Which unless you are very charismatic is going to be a hard social situation to overcome at work and could easily get you fired.

They could come in one day with a bit greasy hair and get fired on the spot because co-workers or boss will assume 'unshowered bum" rather than "woke up a little late this morning"

Re: Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

#162

Post by diamondo25 » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 9:50 PM UTC

simonsarris wrote: post #75

dyingkneepad wrote: post #23

As a non-American person living in the US, I fail to understand one thing about its society. When I walk around town I see tons and tons of places advertising jobs, for simple stuff like kitchen, moving stuff around, etc. I even recently saw a store with a "talk to the manager and start working right now" sign. And then I walk around the streets and see all these homeless. It seems like a paradox to me, but I am obvi…

First please note that America has fewer homeless people than many European nations or Canada. Per 10K: Germany......79 UK...........46 Sweden.......36 Canada.......36 Netherlands..23 France.......21 USA..........17 (via Wikipedia, stats for differing years unfortunately but gives a sense of magnitude) It's mostly that the US homeless population concentrates in very few areas. > How do you reconcile that with the fac…

You should compare US states with European countries.

California has around 161,000 homeless people, of 39.5 million people. That is about 161000/3950 = ~40 per 10k.

For germany, that number includes "around 375,000 asylum seekers and refugees in temporary accommodation", which is more than 50% of total homeless people (see wikipedia).

Re: Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

#163

Post by spfzero » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 9:50 PM UTC

cduzz wrote: post #100

pineconewarrior wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, that job may not offer the person any net quality-of-life improvements. Flipping that burger for 30 hours a week does not give them enough money to find housing. Now they're still broke but they're also tired, smelly, and angry.

How do you cash a paycheck if you are without an address or a bank account? How do you establish that you are a citizen and are legally able to take a job if you are unable to safely store your documents? How do you get health care, inclusive of mental health care, if you are unable to pay for it? If you are without a secure residence, how do you know when to wake up, how do you clean up, put on fresh clothing, and g…

You can cash a paycheck at the bank listed on the paycheck, without any account. You can save up the cash without a bank account. Lots of people do that.

There are plenty of people who will hire you without asking for proof of citizenship.

In CA, you get Medi-Cal. And food stamps.

Waking up, I guess you're on your own.

Not trying to say it's easy, but those obstacles you mentioned are of the convenience variety.

Re: Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

#164

Post by emodendroket » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 9:50 PM UTC

gumby wrote: post #124

dyingkneepad wrote: post #23

As a non-American person living in the US, I fail to understand one thing about its society. When I walk around town I see tons and tons of places advertising jobs, for simple stuff like kitchen, moving stuff around, etc. I even recently saw a store with a "talk to the manager and start working right now" sign. And then I walk around the streets and see all these homeless. It seems like a paradox to me, but I am obvi…

There are many different reasons, some articulated already by other replies. There are also some practical/pragmatic barriers. One is that if you are living on the street, any possessions are likely with you at all times. What do you do with them while working? Another is that if you are living on the street you may have involuntary hygiene issues relating to lack of access to water, clothes washing etc which may mak…

> Ironically that makes it harder to get support for them as most people don't actually encounter truely homeless people except in the movies.

I can't think of any major city I've been to that doesn't have homeless panhandlers all over, though the large camps you see in LA are extreme.

Re: Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

#165

Post by gwright » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 9:50 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #89

simonsarris wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First please note that America has fewer homeless people than many European nations or Canada. Per 10K: Germany......79 UK...........46 Sweden.......36 Canada.......36 Netherlands..23 France.......21 USA..........17 (via Wikipedia, stats for differing years unfortunately but gives a sense of magnitude) It's mostly that the US homeless population concentrates in very few areas. > How do you reconcile that with the fac…

> First please note that America has fewer homeless people than many European nations or Canada Wow that's a real reality check right there. I would have never guessed that Sweden had 2x the homeless of the US. Thank you.

I don't know how valid those stats are but those are per capita numbers not absolute numbers, so not twice as many total homeless:

Sweden: 10,230,000/10,000*36 = 36,828 homeless

US: 328,200,000/10,000*17 = 649,740 homeless

Re: Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

#166

Post by fxtentacle » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 9:51 PM UTC

fabian2k wrote: post #114

simonsarris wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First please note that America has fewer homeless people than many European nations or Canada. Per 10K: Germany......79 UK...........46 Sweden.......36 Canada.......36 Netherlands..23 France.......21 USA..........17 (via Wikipedia, stats for differing years unfortunately but gives a sense of magnitude) It's mostly that the US homeless population concentrates in very few areas. > How do you reconcile that with the fac…

Are you sure those stats are right? It does not seem plausible to me that Germany has 4-5 times as many homeless as the US. I looked a bit, and the numbers really don't match my expectations, I'm pretty sure they're not counting the same things. I found one paper that compares the US and Germany and they got a lifetime prevalence of homelesness of 6.2% in the US and 2.4% in Germany ( https://sci-hub.se/https://doi.or…

The OECD HC3.1. HOMELESS POPULATION has a note that says the German numbers also include people who inhabit temporary government-provided housing.

"Germany: Includes three main groups: i) Homeless refugees with an international protection status of more than one year (and eligible for job seeking allowance and renting regular housing in Germany, but still in temporary accommodation because they could notfind regular housing), ii) Homeless people without such a background who are provided with temporary accommodation by municipalities, and iii) Homeless people who are provided by NGOs with some type of temporary accommodation or are known as homeless users of their advice centres (without permanent housing and in contact with the advice centre at least once in the preceding months"

So it's "homeless" people that were "provided with temporary accommodation by municipalities", meaning it is a different type of homelessness than camping in LA.

Re: Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

#167

Post by mensetmanusman » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 9:51 PM UTC

dyingkneepad wrote: post #23

As a non-American person living in the US, I fail to understand one thing about its society. When I walk around town I see tons and tons of places advertising jobs, for simple stuff like kitchen, moving stuff around, etc. I even recently saw a store with a "talk to the manager and start working right now" sign. And then I walk around the streets and see all these homeless. It seems like a paradox to me, but I am obvi…

Here is one take by the Economist:

https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2018/12/10/...

Re: Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

#168

Post by mfer » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 9:51 PM UTC

baby wrote: post #150

chrisseaton wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First please note that America has fewer homeless people than many European nations or Canada Wow that's a real reality check right there. I would have never guessed that Sweden had 2x the homeless of the US. Thank you.

Same with France. Lived there for most of my life and the US is a culture shock when it comes to homelessness. I’m confused by these numbers.

In some cities there are large concentrations of homeless people while in other parts of the country they are rare to encounter. Those large concentrations are regularly talked about by activists and the news media.

Re: Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

#169

Post by chrisseaton » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 9:51 PM UTC

gwright wrote: post #165

chrisseaton wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First please note that America has fewer homeless people than many European nations or Canada Wow that's a real reality check right there. I would have never guessed that Sweden had 2x the homeless of the US. Thank you.

I don't know how valid those stats are but those are per capita numbers not absolute numbers, so not twice as many total homeless: Sweden: 10,230,000/10,000*36 = 36,828 homeless US: 328,200,000/10,000*17 = 649,740 homeless

> those are per capita numbers not absolute numbers

Of course they are. Why would you use anything else to compare countries?

Re: Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

#170

Post by shadowgovt » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 9:51 PM UTC

goshx wrote: post #67

sudosysgen wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the incentive to get a job if you're still going to be homeless? If you stay homeless you're eventually going to get fired too.

I don't know, maybe being able to buy food is an incentive?

Generally, no. Buying whatever one wants to eat may be an incentive, but in most US cities soup kitchens and/or access to the SNAP program are available. Malnutrition can be a real problem. and 10% of the US experiences food insecurity each year, but starvation is extremely rare.

In the US at least, hunger / food insecurity is a cross-cutting issue; people who own homes also run into it.