NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings • Hacker News Board

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#261

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:33 PM UTC

jrockway wrote: post #150

tracedddd wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We shouldn’t applaud the normalization of health status checks outside a border crossing. The world has a nasty trend of using crises to erode privacy and we collectively never recover - what was sold as temporary becomes permanent, endlessly extended and expanded. I’m not an antivaxer. The vaccine works and I believe it’s really safe. I’m vaccinated. Nearly anyone who is capable to go to a bar can easily go get vacc…

What sort of things will health checks be used for in the future? Once Covid is gone, I don't think people will really care about your health information beyond entities that already care (health insurance providers denying coverage because of preexisting conditions, etc.) Certainly, The Mets won't care if you got your flu shot this year, and your local bar probably won't care that you didn't get your annual physical…

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Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#262

Post by _-david-_ » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:33 PM UTC

Daishiman wrote: post #157

corey_moncure wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My body, my choice only applies when we're talking about terminating the lives of unborn children, right?

As far as many of us are concerned, fetuses do not have human status, so the argument is absolutely irrelevant for most as a comparison.

A fetus is by definition a human. In fact it is the third stage of human development. This is why people argue against personhood. The claim is you can be a human fetus but not have personhood yet.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#263

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:34 PM UTC

timr wrote: post #154

afavour wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And literally anyone who wants a vaccine can get one. Literally not true. Kids under 12 are not able to be vaccinated, which puts a limit on the activities they and their families can do. If they're able to know that everyone inside a restaurant is vaccinated they'll be more likely to visit. > It might well lead to anger and violence (as similar moves have across Europe). Not really. There were some minor protests…

> Literally not true. Kids under 12 are not able to be vaccinated, which puts a limit on the activities they and their families can do. If they're able to know that everyone inside a restaurant is vaccinated they'll be more likely to visit. This policy is also hysterical, and not based in science. Kids should not be under any restrictions due to SARS-CoV2. Please see my comment from yesterday as to why I believe this…

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Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#264

Post by mrfusion » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:35 PM UTC

standardUser wrote: post #202

SirensOfTitan wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I clearly mentioned, this vaccine is not FDA approved. We have no idea of the long term effects. I find it fairly reasonable to not want to be a test subject.

"We have no idea of the long term effects" Perhaps you have no idea, but the people closest to this science, including the countless government agencies around the world that have given authorization, have a pretty good idea. The design and length of clinical trials is not arbitrary, but your personal idea of "long term" is arbitrary.

Have we seen a vaccinated person conceive and have a healthy birth?

I’m not at all saying that’s a risk but just that it’s an example of something we haven’t had time to test.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#265

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:35 PM UTC

gr1zzlybe4r wrote: post #137

This is the point where we have to stop making trade offs of choice and liberty in the name of "security". Give the public open data about the effectiveness of the vaccine and then let people make their own decisions about what to do. The moralization and judgement about the vaccine has become ludicrous. If you're scared to do things around others even if you're vaccinated, then that's fine. We cannot accept a societ…

[deleted]

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#266

Post by bart_spoon » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:35 PM UTC

bsagdiyev wrote: post #75

mthoms wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your rights end when exercising them endangers my life and the lives of my family. That’s also a basic tenet of civil society (see traffic laws for example).

But if you’re vaccinated then you’re not at risk? I say as a vaccinated person.

What about the immunocompromised? Those who can’t have the vaccine. To say nothing of breakthrough infections and the fact that the mutation rate is tied to the number of infections, and therefore a vaccinated person’s immunity could indeed be impacted by large contingents of unvaccinated persons being infected. And how about the financial cost of COVID? Perhaps we should make it so that if one gets severe COVID and has no proof of vaccination, all coverage of medical costs by insurance are voided. You can’t make a reasonable argument that society should be on the hook for paying for your life saving medical treatment when you intentionally deny free, effective preventative measures.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#267

Post by h_anna_h » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:36 PM UTC

timr wrote: post #154

afavour wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And literally anyone who wants a vaccine can get one. Literally not true. Kids under 12 are not able to be vaccinated, which puts a limit on the activities they and their families can do. If they're able to know that everyone inside a restaurant is vaccinated they'll be more likely to visit. > It might well lead to anger and violence (as similar moves have across Europe). Not really. There were some minor protests…

> Literally not true. Kids under 12 are not able to be vaccinated, which puts a limit on the activities they and their families can do. If they're able to know that everyone inside a restaurant is vaccinated they'll be more likely to visit. This policy is also hysterical, and not based in science. Kids should not be under any restrictions due to SARS-CoV2. Please see my comment from yesterday as to why I believe this…

The usual argument for mandatory vaccination is for the protection of others rather than the protection of oneself, so the effectiveness of the vaccine in preventing death in children should not matter.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#268

Post by muhfreedomz » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:36 PM UTC

gr1zzlybe4r wrote: post #137

This is the point where we have to stop making trade offs of choice and liberty in the name of "security". Give the public open data about the effectiveness of the vaccine and then let people make their own decisions about what to do. The moralization and judgement about the vaccine has become ludicrous. If you're scared to do things around others even if you're vaccinated, then that's fine. We cannot accept a societ…

> in the name of "security"

It's in the name of not spreading a deadly virus, not security with scare quotes.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#269

Post by srcreigh » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:36 PM UTC

alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

What's the harm in letting unvaccinated people spread covid amongst themselves? Vaccinated people aren't at risk. Unvaccinated people know the risks and they've had plenty of time to be vaccinated.

It's not illegal to decide to do $XYZ_DANGEROUS_ACTIVITY, why should it be illegal to be exposed to covid?

The only concern in theory is that a vaccine-immune covid variant could develop amongst unvaccinated populations. Is there any evidence for that though?

EDIT: see responses below, there is some good info, thanks folks.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#270

Post by textgel » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:36 PM UTC

bart_spoon wrote: post #247

tboyd47 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Requiring people to consume a medical product, especially one that has not been subject to the full FDA approval process, just to live their normal lives is morally wrong. They are making people into test subjects for a multinational corporation. It doesn't matter if we already do this to an extent with other vaccines; nothing in the past has ever come close to this. It doesn't matter if you think the vaccine is more…

So your hang up is the FDA giving full approval? Because recent reports indicate that will likely be happening for the Pfizer vaccine next month. Somehow I think there will be a major shifting of goalposts by the anti-vax camp around that time.

> Requiring people to consume a medical product just to live their normal lives is morally wrong.

> So your hang up is the FDA giving full approval?

Perhaps they will but could you save the strawman arguments for then as well.