The humble egg is an example of what’s wrong with nutrition studies (2019) • Hacker News Board

Re: The humble egg is an example of what’s wrong with nutrition studies (2019)

#31

Post by sithadmin » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:16 PM UTC

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #21

spidersouris wrote: post #3

Eggs could easily be replaced with salt. Consuming too much salt (more than 2g a day) is heavily discouraged by some because it is said to increase the risks of cardiovascular diseases as well as increase blood pressure to a dangerous level, but others repudiate these claims and assert they are untrue, and that salt has positive health benefits above this limit. Even if we take a group of people, put them in a closed…

> it is said to increase the risks of cardiovascular diseases How? Salt is a convenient bogeyman, but nobody can demonstrate what it role it plays as an agent of disease. Every cell in your body regulates isotonic balance and excess sodium is rapidly excreted. Complex lifeforms wouldn't exist without this fundamental ability.

The link between high sodium intake and elevated blood pressure is well documented. This is mostly because of the attempt of body systems to maintain isotonic balance.

There’s also a signficant portion of the population with a genetic predisposition to have above-average increases in blood pressure shortly after consuming large amounts of salt, to the point that it will even cause hypertension in some people that had otherwise normal blood pressure.

Salt -> elevated blood pressure -> complicating factor in pulmonary and cardiac disease.

Re: The humble egg is an example of what’s wrong with nutrition studies (2019)

#32

Post by FredPret » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:16 PM UTC

dalbasal wrote: post #28

So... I think I have 3 points. First is worst. Looking back over a few generations, standard nutritional advice informing doctors, institutions and the public have been poor. Not only inaccurate, but de facto pushing people down bad paths. Low fat & low cholesterol labels led to foods, with processed foods with high sugar & many additives. Cereal instead of a boiled egg. Second is that many norms, like the food pyram…

Actually, IDK is a great answer if it’s true

Re: The humble egg is an example of what’s wrong with nutrition studies (2019)

#33

Post by yboris » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:17 PM UTC

Nutrition Science is broken because of the financial incentives of companies to fund sham research to get their products sold.

I strongly recommend going to https://nutritionfacts.org/ for your information -- a nonprofit that never sells anything or promotes any products, just tries to distill research on nutrition in easy-to-understand videos and posts.

Here's an example: "How the Egg Board Designs Misleading Studies" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2s25RaOZsFM

Re: The humble egg is an example of what’s wrong with nutrition studies (2019)

#34

Post by hdjjhhvvhga » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:19 PM UTC

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #21

spidersouris wrote: post #3

Eggs could easily be replaced with salt. Consuming too much salt (more than 2g a day) is heavily discouraged by some because it is said to increase the risks of cardiovascular diseases as well as increase blood pressure to a dangerous level, but others repudiate these claims and assert they are untrue, and that salt has positive health benefits above this limit. Even if we take a group of people, put them in a closed…

> it is said to increase the risks of cardiovascular diseases How? Salt is a convenient bogeyman, but nobody can demonstrate what it role it plays as an agent of disease. Every cell in your body regulates isotonic balance and excess sodium is rapidly excreted. Complex lifeforms wouldn't exist without this fundamental ability.

It is very simple. If you suffer from high blood pressure (above 140/90mm Hg) and your sodium intake is considerable, your blood pressure rises even more. You can easily set up a study with a control group and test it repeatedly, the results will be the same.

However, the mitigating factor is potassium. If you consume an adequate amount of foods rich in potassium, the negative effect of sodium on your blood pressure is neutralized somehow. The exact behaviors depend on the amounts of each.

And here's the problem: in salt, sodium is very concentrated. You would have to eat a large amount of foods considered rich in potassium, such as tomatoes, in order to neutralize a teaspoon of salt.

Re: The humble egg is an example of what’s wrong with nutrition studies (2019)

#35

Post by mrfusion » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:19 PM UTC

spidersouris wrote: post #3

Eggs could easily be replaced with salt. Consuming too much salt (more than 2g a day) is heavily discouraged by some because it is said to increase the risks of cardiovascular diseases as well as increase blood pressure to a dangerous level, but others repudiate these claims and assert they are untrue, and that salt has positive health benefits above this limit. Even if we take a group of people, put them in a closed…

I constantly see people suffer through painful cramps after exercising because they refuse to replace the salt they lost through sweating due to salt being bad for you.

Re: The humble egg is an example of what’s wrong with nutrition studies (2019)

#36

Post by jonasmerlin » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:21 PM UTC

spidersouris wrote: post #3

Eggs could easily be replaced with salt. Consuming too much salt (more than 2g a day) is heavily discouraged by some because it is said to increase the risks of cardiovascular diseases as well as increase blood pressure to a dangerous level, but others repudiate these claims and assert they are untrue, and that salt has positive health benefits above this limit. Even if we take a group of people, put them in a closed…

Relevant Scientific American article about the dubious scientific foundation the general vilification of salt is based on: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/its-time-to-end-t...

Re: The humble egg is an example of what’s wrong with nutrition studies (2019)

#37

Post by minikites » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:21 PM UTC

dalbasal wrote: post #28

So... I think I have 3 points. First is worst. Looking back over a few generations, standard nutritional advice informing doctors, institutions and the public have been poor. Not only inaccurate, but de facto pushing people down bad paths. Low fat & low cholesterol labels led to foods, with processed foods with high sugar & many additives. Cereal instead of a boiled egg. Second is that many norms, like the food pyram…

>Self correction was fatally weak. Challenging norms had a higher burden for proof than the norm had faced.

This is the biggest problem, in my opinion. People don't want to look foolish, so it's difficult to change. Doubly so if you made it part of your identity, as diet so often is. It's also why obstructing progress is much easier than creating the conditions for progress. If the status quo serves the powerful, it's going to be difficult to change, because they have more to lose by looking foolish.

Re: The humble egg is an example of what’s wrong with nutrition studies (2019)

#38

Post by sithadmin » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:24 PM UTC

hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #34

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it is said to increase the risks of cardiovascular diseases How? Salt is a convenient bogeyman, but nobody can demonstrate what it role it plays as an agent of disease. Every cell in your body regulates isotonic balance and excess sodium is rapidly excreted. Complex lifeforms wouldn't exist without this fundamental ability.

It is very simple. If you suffer from high blood pressure (above 140/90mm Hg) and your sodium intake is considerable, your blood pressure rises even more. You can easily set up a study with a control group and test it repeatedly, the results will be the same. However, the mitigating factor is potassium. If you consume an adequate amount of foods rich in potassium, the negative effect of sodium on your blood pressure…

You don’t even have to have high blood pressure for above ‘normal’ (~2000mg/day) salt intake to create the effect. It’s observable in people with normal blood pressure as well, and pronounced in a subset of the population with a gene that appears to worsen the effect.

The potassium factor is why many doctors often recommend sea/himalayan salt — these salts usually have a bunch of other minerals, including potassium.

For anyone wondering, no, it’s not a good idea to try to self medicate the combination of high blood pressure + a sodium heavy diet with potassium supplements. Do it wrong and you’ll end up with hyperkalemia, which is both very uncomfortable and potentially life-threatening.

Re: The humble egg is an example of what’s wrong with nutrition studies (2019)

#39

Post by dalbasal » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:27 PM UTC

FredPret wrote: post #32

dalbasal wrote: post #28

So... I think I have 3 points. First is worst. Looking back over a few generations, standard nutritional advice informing doctors, institutions and the public have been poor. Not only inaccurate, but de facto pushing people down bad paths. Low fat & low cholesterol labels led to foods, with processed foods with high sugar & many additives. Cereal instead of a boiled egg. Second is that many norms, like the food pyram…

Actually, IDK is a great answer if it’s true

In theory, sure. In practice, skepticism can be impractical. The guys printing the food pyramid postor needs science's guidelines. The hospital director wants to provide guidelines for the catering contract. Etc. IDK is fine, but they'll just ask the next guy until they get an answer. What do you mean science doesn't know what we should eat? Oh FredPret, you're such a contrarian. Don't be difficult.

Re: The humble egg is an example of what’s wrong with nutrition studies (2019)

#40

Post by kevin_thibedeau » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:31 PM UTC

hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #34

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it is said to increase the risks of cardiovascular diseases How? Salt is a convenient bogeyman, but nobody can demonstrate what it role it plays as an agent of disease. Every cell in your body regulates isotonic balance and excess sodium is rapidly excreted. Complex lifeforms wouldn't exist without this fundamental ability.

It is very simple. If you suffer from high blood pressure (above 140/90mm Hg) and your sodium intake is considerable, your blood pressure rises even more. You can easily set up a study with a control group and test it repeatedly, the results will be the same. However, the mitigating factor is potassium. If you consume an adequate amount of foods rich in potassium, the negative effect of sodium on your blood pressure…

> If you suffer from high blood pressure

People who already have a disease that requires salt regulation doesn't prove any causative role.