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NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

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Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#201

Post by JoshTko »

timr wrote: post #129
alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

I am pro-vaccine (and fully vaccinated), but I don't support this policy at all. I don't believe this will have much of a net effect on vaccination rate, I believe it will disproportionately negatively impact poor and minority populations in NYC who already have a bad/mistrustful relationship with health care and government, and it is obviously a huge new governmental intrusion into our daily lives. It might well lea…

A high vaccination rate is most beneficial for poor and minority populations as they are by far the most exposed to the virus via work.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#202

Post by standardUser »

SirensOfTitan wrote: post #158
threatofrain wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the vaccine is as effective as it seems, then this decision feels positively nanny state to me. It takes away an individual's agency to inform themselves of the risks on both sides and make an informed decision. Do people feel the same way about schools requiring vaccines, or children getting the MMR, Hep B, or Polio vaccines?

As I clearly mentioned, this vaccine is not FDA approved. We have no idea of the long term effects. I find it fairly reasonable to not want to be a test subject.

"We have no idea of the long term effects"

Perhaps you have no idea, but the people closest to this science, including the countless government agencies around the world that have given authorization, have a pretty good idea. The design and length of clinical trials is not arbitrary, but your personal idea of "long term" is arbitrary.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#203

Post by gr1zzlybe4r »

Daishiman wrote: post #184
gr1zzlybe4r wrote: post #137

This is the point where we have to stop making trade offs of choice and liberty in the name of "security". Give the public open data about the effectiveness of the vaccine and then let people make their own decisions about what to do. The moralization and judgement about the vaccine has become ludicrous. If you're scared to do things around others even if you're vaccinated, then that's fine. We cannot accept a societ…

I'm sorry but the whole "let people make their own decisions" is BS. Making epidemiological decisions isn't something that most people are qualified to do. I have seen the takes from random people and 99% of them are abject garbage.

The science around covid has been fluid this entire time. We aren't even sure if these vaccines will work against other covid variants in the future.

What makes anyone qualified to make decisions over someone else's choice of what they should put in their body? If the vaccines are effective, then you can make the choice if you feel comfortable getting them and then being around other people.

I don't even think people realize what they're saying when they say "most people aren't qualified to make decisions". I mean, seriously?

The death rate of covid for healthy individuals is still very low. Even lower if you're vaccinated. We should _not_ sacrifice personal choice in the name of public safety.

Give people the data and let them make their own choices.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#205

Post by rubyist5eva »

afavour wrote: post #171
timr wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Literally not true. Kids under 12 are not able to be vaccinated, which puts a limit on the activities they and their families can do. If they're able to know that everyone inside a restaurant is vaccinated they'll be more likely to visit. This policy is also hysterical, and not based in science. Kids should not be under any restrictions due to SARS-CoV2. Please see my comment from yesterday as to why I believe this…

> the most fearful 5% of people can force it upon their children and stop holding the rest of the world hostage To be clear, as a parent, it's not because I'm fearful, it's because a positive COVID test from any child in my kid's school means that it shuts down for two weeks, completely messing up our lives, jobs etc. I'm not going to defend that policy for a second as I don't think it's a good idea either, but it's…

Why not lobby your school board to get rid of such a ridiculous policy?

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#206

Post by [deleted] »

eropple wrote: post #71
AndrewBissell wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you drawing a comparison between requiring vaccinations (with 30+ year safety records) against measles and polio, for children to attend public school, with requiring vaccinations (with no long-term safety data whatsoever) against Covid for people to go to public establishments? Did you ever need proof of a polio vaccine to get into Equinox?

Hi! Thanks for asking! I very much am drawing that comparison, because there is literally no--and I mean that, literally no --evidence from a credible source to suggest that the possibility exists in terms of actual pathways to a long-term problem. Should that evidence be forthcoming from sources with a credible tether to reality, I will re-evaluate my position, but unlike so many of the fearful types who insist one…

[deleted]

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#207

Post by jjgreen »

jobigoud wrote: post #16
jjgreen wrote: post #3

> The program is modeled after the vaccine passport programs rolled out in France ... which resulted in riots https://www.france24.com/en/france/20210731-france-sees-thir...

Protests, not riots. And there are protests all the time whenever a controversial decision is made, it's our national sport. Another confounding factor is the very aggressive calendar set up, where due to the span between the doses not everyone has a way to be fully vaccinated before the measure is active.

And there are protests all the time whenever a controversial decision is made, it's our national sport

It is an endearing habit; but to be fair, some of those protests can look a bit "riotey", what with the smoke bombs, water cannon, paramilitary cops with batons etc ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfxVY8ltyso

... to us in la perfide Albion at least, to Americans this probably all looks a bit tame.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#208

Post by Consultant32452 »

alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

I care more about the health of small business than I do about the health of people who contract covid and will continue to view all sociopolitical activity through that unchanging lens.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#209

Post by h_anna_h »

dont__panic wrote: post #173
corey_moncure wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My body, my choice only applies when we're talking about terminating the lives of unborn children, right?

Do unborn children occasionally pop out of women's bodies, enter other people's bodies, and reproduce uncontrollably to a point where they stop those other people from breathing? If so, we can apply the same logic to coronavirus and pregnancy. If not, you're just drawing a false parallel.

The point is the comparison between the life of others vs the "right to bodily self-determination".

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#210

Post by RaketenStadt »

gr1zzlybe4r wrote: post #137

This is the point where we have to stop making trade offs of choice and liberty in the name of "security". Give the public open data about the effectiveness of the vaccine and then let people make their own decisions about what to do. The moralization and judgement about the vaccine has become ludicrous. If you're scared to do things around others even if you're vaccinated, then that's fine. We cannot accept a societ…

> Give the public open data about the effectiveness of the vaccine

and done: https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#datatracker-home

> then let people make their own decisions about what to do

As we see, they go to crowded places, unvaccinated, and spread the virus. I think that's irresponsible. Is that "ludicrous moralization and judgement?"

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