NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings • Hacker News Board

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#71

Post by eropple » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 5:18 PM UTC

AndrewBissell wrote: post #58

eropple wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many compulsory vaccines were necessary for you to attend school? For me, it was three or four at least, and until some genuinely inimical people decided vaccines were a good way to get famous at the expense of the body politic, nobody cared .

Are you drawing a comparison between requiring vaccinations (with 30+ year safety records) against measles and polio, for children to attend public school, with requiring vaccinations (with no long-term safety data whatsoever) against Covid for people to go to public establishments? Did you ever need proof of a polio vaccine to get into Equinox?

Hi! Thanks for asking! I very much am drawing that comparison, because there is literally no--and I mean that, literally no--evidence from a credible source to suggest that the possibility exists in terms of actual pathways to a long-term problem. Should that evidence be forthcoming from sources with a credible tether to reality, I will re-evaluate my position, but unlike so many of the fearful types who insist one "should do their own research", I have, and this is the conclusion I've come to, and to such a degree of certainty that I am comfortable with the requirement.

Further, I am also asserting that the fearmongering to the contrary is foolish and worth immediate discount. And given that literal disinformation ops are trying to recruit YouTubers to take a ninety degree swerve from tech or whatever they normally do to talk very seriously about the just asking questions about vaccination, I am okay with being pretty damned hard on this.

Thanks for asking!

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#72

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 5:18 PM UTC

tboyd47 wrote: post #69

eropple wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many compulsory vaccines were necessary for you to attend school? For me, it was three or four at least, and until some genuinely inimical people decided vaccines were a good way to get famous at the expense of the body politic, nobody cared .

This is a day-old comment on a thread which never made it to front page HN, and now 5 snarky replies appear in less than 30 minutes. Do you guys all work in the same room or something?

[deleted]

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#73

Post by thinkharderdev » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 5:18 PM UTC

da_big_ghey wrote: post #10

alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

I have strong opposition on this policy. 1. No particular vaccine concern, have mine. 2. Yes. I am not telling my name and birth day for random person in public but now this is required for many public venue. No more being anonymous in public. 3. I have lowered concern, most people with vaccine have lesser time of it even with breakthrough infection. Or maybe better to say I am past caring. 4. All prior vaccine requi…

Out of curiosity do you refuse to show an ID to the bouncer at a bar to prove that you're over 21? Or when you buy alcohol/tobacco in a grocery store?

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#74

Post by giantg2 » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 5:19 PM UTC

alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

For #2, if you have a medical condition that prevents you from receiving the vaccine it would require either falsified vaccine cards to show you as complying with the mandate, or disclosure of a/the medical condition that prevents you from getting it. Effectively, this small minority is finding themselves in a position that pits their medical privacy of their underlying medical conditions against the requirement to prove vaccination status.

On a related note, I wonder why antibody levels aren't used. I mean, we should want to measure outcomes, not output. If you have comparable levels of antibodies from natural infection vs the vaccine, then you should be well protected. Conversely, if you recieved the vaccine but your immune system does not produce a sufficient level of antibodies, then they shouldn't be considered "safe", right? This question was mostly based on an article I saw about a nurse who was fired because she didn't get the vaccine eventhough she had antibodies. It made me think it was mostly a move by some corporate lawyer limit liability.

"you can "take your chances" with the vaccine which, statistically and biologically, is safer than getting coronavirus."

Can you elaborate on what you mean by biologically safer? Also, I'm looking forward to the data Pfizer will be releasing soon for their regular market approval, because I haven't been able to find good statistics about covid v vaccine serious side effects by risk factor(s).

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#75

Post by bsagdiyev » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 5:19 PM UTC

mthoms wrote: post #54

tboyd47 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Requiring people to consume a medical product, especially one that has not been subject to the full FDA approval process, just to live their normal lives is morally wrong. They are making people into test subjects for a multinational corporation. It doesn't matter if we already do this to an extent with other vaccines; nothing in the past has ever come close to this. It doesn't matter if you think the vaccine is more…

Your rights end when exercising them endangers my life and the lives of my family. That’s also a basic tenet of civil society (see traffic laws for example).

But if you’re vaccinated then you’re not at risk? I say as a vaccinated person.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#76

Post by eropple » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 5:20 PM UTC

tboyd47 wrote: post #69

eropple wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many compulsory vaccines were necessary for you to attend school? For me, it was three or four at least, and until some genuinely inimical people decided vaccines were a good way to get famous at the expense of the body politic, nobody cared .

This is a day-old comment on a thread which never made it to front page HN, and now 5 snarky replies appear in less than 30 minutes. Do you guys all work in the same room or something?

It was on the front page not five minutes ago.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#77

Post by TheAdamAndChe » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 5:20 PM UTC

analyte123 wrote: post #53

jayd16 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously the end game isn't seen. We're nowhere close to the end game. We don't know about lasting immunity or about variants that don't even exist yet. Maybe we can eradicate it, maybe not. Literally no one knows what the future holds here.

Eradication is not happening. You might as well be talking about eradicating the flu, which is another contagious respiratory virus that rapidly mutates and is not completely controlled by vaccines. This was obvious even a month ago, when over 10% of a naval ship tested positive for Covid despite every single person being fully vaccinated [1]. I only hope that the "end game" is not permanent restrictions on travel, m…

You're 100% right. This isn't Ebola or SARS where everyone who gets sick has obvious symptoms and becomes gravely ill. Asymptomatic carriers and transference to other animals like birds and cattle will ensure that it will persist in our population permanently.

The good news is that viruses tend to get less dangerous over time. Death of the host provides selective pressure against those variants. Syphilis used to be extremely dangerous and rapidly fatal, but it has been around for so long that it has changed. But that process takes years typically.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#78

Post by BrianOnHN » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 5:21 PM UTC

tonightstoast wrote: post #40

BrianOnHN wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meta: What do you think about the timestamps on the children comments here? So many/much responses in <1min from the parent comment? GPT-3 manipulation?

Thank you for bringing this up. There are multiple _long_ child comments that were sent under a minute after the post was published. Wild. I would guess it is someone with some sort of an agenda. Although I’m not sure about GPT-3. EDIT: please see @_Microft's comment above for an explanation of how HN will "pool" threads before coming to a conclusion :)

Yeah, even though it's against the rules to bring this up, which seems to be doing a favor for blatant manipulation (gpt bot or not) like this.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#79

Post by _Microft » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 5:22 PM UTC

BrianOnHN wrote: post #66

_Microft wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because it was not submitted when you think it was. The submission came here via the second-chance pool. That means that it was submitted recently, in this case yesterday. It might have gotten a few points and comments at best but did not really catch on. It was deemed interesting enough and moved to the second-chance pool to be automatically put on the frontpage a few hours later again. The process rewrites t…

I see that, however I was referring to children comments of the initial comment in this thread, and not the submission itself.

I see a number of subthreads that were all posted 40-41 minutes ago, some with longer comments in them which might be the ones you have noticed. I would bet that these comments were posted before the submission was lifted to the frontpage for a second time. Consequently their timestamps were fudged so that they do not appear to have been posted before the submission time.

If you really care, you might want to ask dang (email hn@ycombinator.com) but I am confident that my explanation is not that far off.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#80

Post by dougmwne » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 5:23 PM UTC

wdhilliard wrote: post #13

alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

My problem is that the whole thing is based on old data and a false premise that life is safe when vaccinated people are only around vaccinated people. We know this is slightly more true than among the unvaccinated, but only by about 40%. This is real data. Fears of privacy implications: Tracking data/metadata, How data is recorded, How long are records kept. What other data is linked to vaccination checks? Fears of…

Yes, I am concerned about the "security theater" aspect of this. I want evidence that this is a valid approach, not moralizing. Otherwise we might as well start tossing virgins into Mount Etna for all the good it'll do.