Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is exactly what Foundation [1] (which was also shown in a screenshot in the article) does. [1] https://store.steampowered.com/app/690830/Foundation/
Looks like it's windows only..
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The historical accuracy of medieval city-builder video games
41–50 of 246 posts
Re: The historical accuracy of medieval city-builder video games
#42Even modern city builders are inaccurate in the sense that timelines of how long it takes to build things aren't Modelled correct. Plus organic city growth is rarely simulated. Cities skylines for example has no concept of slums. Also the annoying Western/Eurocentrism. Eg: See the recent game Dorfromantik, its aesthetically pleasing, it is rustic european scenery, but why isn't it not set in Indonesia or Ecuador or U…
> Eg: See the recent game Dorfromantik, its aesthetically pleasing, its rustic european scene, but why isn't it not set in Indonesia or Ecuador or Uzbekistan? That seems a bit harsh judgement for a game with a German name, made by 4 German game design students living in Berlin, with funds from the German state [0]. [0] https://toukana.itch.io/
You make an excellent point.
Re: The historical accuracy of medieval city-builder video games
#43I would love a building game where you can't build roads. All of those building games so far allowed that, but I think it would be more fun to just allow for constructing building, and roads/pathway would form depending on their connectivity inside the production chain. I.e. you wouldn't connect your farm to a butcher, but pathways would form and eventually turn into street based on the amount people from dependent s…
Civilization 6 does this a bit, where roads are constructed by running trade routes, not built manually.
But you choose the trade routes individually. Its not natural, that's the player's choice in where the roads go (except for Rome: all roads lead to Rome lol (special power where every city auto-builds a road to Rome in the early ages))
Re: The historical accuracy of medieval city-builder video games
#44It’s interesting and most likely not applicable - for the very same reasons you cant get realistic sword fighting (or even street fighting) in most Hollywood movies: realistic fighting doesn’t look as exciting as the fake thing. Glad the author sees into that very clearly. * Could be an interesting art game tho as someone pointed out below
There's a really great scene in HBO's Barry (Bill Hader) with an attempt at a more realistic fight scene. It's quite interesting actually! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_MjQRqEk5M Spoilers possible if you haven't seen the show. Definitely recommend it btw.
The same episode, hilariously, includes one of their least realistic fight scenes. Wild ride.
Re: The historical accuracy of medieval city-builder video games
#45> And finally, something that would, in my opinion, really add to the realism and historical flavor of a medieval-themed city builder would be the introduction of mechanisms in which agricultural surpluses are skimmed by the church and the feudal lord. Tithes, taxes and rents! Instead of merely abstracting the taxes into an income modifier or letting the player be the extractor himself, we could be shown the tax coll…
See the the Caesar franchise (Caesar IV, 2006). You have to hire tax collectors, set taxes, and yes you also have a separate income as a governor. It does all of this.
That's cool! Does it say what exactly you are taxing (labor, land, capital, income, wealth)?, or is that left abstract?
Re: The historical accuracy of medieval city-builder video games
#46I always thought city builders are a weird mix of sort of free market / authoritarian beliefs: In most city builder games involve some planning, incentives provided, and people just show up, do their thing, growth is endless, build a business, and there you go. On the other hand in most city builders the player makes all the decisions and can act at will with no regard to his local citizens ;)
Can you imagine a real mayor simulator, where you'd have to get elected and answer to the city council and constituents? I expect most would find that boring, but it might be a fun (or at least educational) experience for some.
Hearts of Iron (3 in particular)
One of the biggest problems with playing as the USA in Hearts of Iron is that you need to actually convince your Democracy / citizens that its worthwhile to go to war. And unless you click the "Crisis of Democracy" button (aka: turn yourself into a dictatorship), you don't actually have full control over the policies of your country.
Which is why its more fun to play as Germany / Hitler (where the button was already pressed before the game started). But playing as the USA (where you have to build support and convert the peacetime economy into a military economy in time for the war) is a big challenge... a "hard mode" for those who have already mastered the military portions of the game.
Re: The historical accuracy of medieval city-builder video games
#47Even modern city builders are inaccurate in the sense that timelines of how long it takes to build things aren't Modelled correct. Plus organic city growth is rarely simulated. Cities skylines for example has no concept of slums. Also the annoying Western/Eurocentrism. Eg: See the recent game Dorfromantik, its aesthetically pleasing, it is rustic european scenery, but why isn't it not set in Indonesia or Ecuador or U…
>Cities skylines for example has no concept of slums.
That was one thing it seemed to simulate pretty well in my experience. Last time I played it, I set up the city with a bunch of low income housing areas in industrial zones, roads all through them, small housing plots next to industry and under overpasses and stuff.
The neighbourhoods looked exactly like the low income housing neighbourhoods around industrial areas I've seen in real life. The people in those houses were typically unhealthier than in other areas. I put the closest hospitals and schools just outside those areas, the waste water from the city was dumped nearby etc.
It's quite possible to create extremely disparate neighborhoods and areas. From slums to McMansion filled suburbs to bustling industrial areas.
Sadly though, my in game city started with me trying to model my real city. It turned out pretty accurate at least as far as neighbourhood layout and visual income disparity went.
Re: The historical accuracy of medieval city-builder video games
#48It’s interesting and most likely not applicable - for the very same reasons you cant get realistic sword fighting (or even street fighting) in most Hollywood movies: realistic fighting doesn’t look as exciting as the fake thing. Glad the author sees into that very clearly. * Could be an interesting art game tho as someone pointed out below
Sword fights certainly could seem more realistic without losing the excitement. Check this out ('fighting' starts at around 2 minutes): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GoQlvc_H3s
Re: The historical accuracy of medieval city-builder video games
#49Even modern city builders are inaccurate in the sense that timelines of how long it takes to build things aren't Modelled correct. Plus organic city growth is rarely simulated. Cities skylines for example has no concept of slums. Also the annoying Western/Eurocentrism. Eg: See the recent game Dorfromantik, its aesthetically pleasing, it is rustic european scenery, but why isn't it not set in Indonesia or Ecuador or U…
>Cities skylines for example has no concept of slums. That was one thing it seemed to simulate pretty well in my experience. Last time I played it, I set up the city with a bunch of low income housing areas in industrial zones, roads all through them, small housing plots next to industry and under overpasses and stuff. The neighbourhoods looked exactly like the low income housing neighbourhoods around industrial area…
Slums in Cities Skylines are useless. The only point of a "slum" in that game is to convert the slum into a richer neighborhood.
In contrast: creating Slums in Ceasar, Pharaoh, or Tropico is an explicit strategy. Why? Because low-income industries (such as mining or farming) cannot afford better housing. The slum is the best that you can give that population as a leader.
In Ceasar, they're extremely cheeky about the highest class of citizens. Only plebeians work. If you "upgrade" housing to the point of attracting patricians, you LOSE workers (because patricians don't work!!). There are entire strategies in the game about attracting as many plebeians (working-class) citizens needed to have a functioning economy, but then converting the excess workers into Patricians for higher-tax collection.
As such, you need to keep the plebeians purposefully at a lower class to keep your industrial sector working. If you convert everyone into patricians, no work would get done at all. Its a challenge to build road-networks that separate the housing units, but provide the workers needed to serve the upper class (ex: services such as bath-houses and marketplaces are run by plebeians, but should be placed inside of Patrician neighborhoods)
Re: The historical accuracy of medieval city-builder video games
#50I would love a building game where you can't build roads. All of those building games so far allowed that, but I think it would be more fun to just allow for constructing building, and roads/pathway would form depending on their connectivity inside the production chain. I.e. you wouldn't connect your farm to a butcher, but pathways would form and eventually turn into street based on the amount people from dependent s…
Rise Of Nations did it like this.