Coming soon: America’s own social credit system • Hacker News Board

Re: Coming soon: America’s own social credit system

#51

Post by dolni » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 2:16 PM UTC

ladyattis wrote: post #46

dolni wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should I take this comment to mean that you are not against the sort of blackballing that happens to people with criminal histories? I mean, it's just social ostracism, right? Why would we have a problem with people not being able to find a place to live or work?

You should read my other comments. But for clarity sake, no I don't support blackballing, at-will employment, and the like. I just want to point out that supposed cancelling hasn't done a blessed thing in the instances that celebrities who say actual bad things publicly. The closest thing I can recall that cancelling has done anything is what happened to James Gunn and Kathy Griffin for their supposed misdeeds (cring…

> I just want to point out that supposed cancelling hasn't done a blessed thing in the instances that celebrities who say actual bad things publicly.

Huh?! Gina Carano was fired by Disney earlier this year because she had the audacity to draw a parallel between today's political vitriol and the Holocaust [1]. This happened precisely because of the power of the current outrage mob.

If you don't see the effects that the outrage mob is having on the rest of us, it's because you aren't looking [2].

[1]: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/supernumberfireginac...

[2]: https://www.cato.org/survey-reports/poll-62-americans-say-th...

Re: Coming soon: America’s own social credit system

#52

Post by happytoexplain » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 2:17 PM UTC

dolni wrote: post #41

petermcneeley wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"criminals should have a second chance and be able to reintegrate into society" Is this not part of the definition of justice? Most crimes (high and low) only required some form of punishment and perhaps reform. After the balance has been restored why wouldnt those people fully reintegrate? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice

I didn't say criminals being able to reintegrate was a bad thing. I'm simply pointing out the apparent double-think here.

Limitation on legal punishment is one of the critical foundations of any society that could be defined as civilized, so I have trouble agreeing that the morality or consequences of people supporting specifically unjust instances of social shunning begins to approach that, even giving you all the benefit of doubt within reason as to what qualifies as "unjust".

Re: Coming soon: America’s own social credit system

#53

Post by pupppet » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 2:49 PM UTC

dolni wrote: post #2

The irony is so thick, it is palpable. Leftist politics suggest that criminals should have a second chance and be able to reintegrate into society. But do something completely legal that I don't like, and you're cancelled forever.

The only reason a site originally intended to share photos can ‘cancel’ anyone is because right wing politics allow these companies to grow out of control.

Re: Coming soon: America’s own social credit system

#54

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 3:08 PM UTC

TameAntelope wrote: post #3

I'm excited for accountability to catch up to the Internet, for far too long people have been able to poison the well. Now, when you say something, you have to stand by it. This is a good thing, and I hope more things like this come soon.

[deleted]

Re: Coming soon: America’s own social credit system

#55

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 3:21 PM UTC

muststopmyths wrote: post #13

dolni wrote: post #2

The irony is so thick, it is palpable. Leftist politics suggest that criminals should have a second chance and be able to reintegrate into society. But do something completely legal that I don't like, and you're cancelled forever.

The irony is so thick, it is palpable. Rightist politics suggest that criminals should be locked away and have their right to reintegrate into society stripped when they are let out. But if there are social consequences to my actions, it's because of cancel culture.

[deleted]

Re: Coming soon: America’s own social credit system

#56

Post by ASalazarMX » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 4:49 PM UTC

paulryanrogers wrote: post #27

throw37388 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ostracism was democratic process, there was a vote and majority decided. "Cancellation" is nothing like that.

How is the 'cancellation' any less democratic? It seems more democratic than a majority deciding for everyone, if each person decides for themselves whether to avoid or not.

A mob has a reverse synergy: the more it grows, the lower their common sense, until they can't regulate themselves. At least democracy tries to put some balances to prevent runaway demagogy.

Re: Coming soon: America’s own social credit system

#57

Post by ShriekBob » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 4:59 PM UTC

MeinBlutIstBlau wrote: post #39

oxymoran wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an independent, I am horrified by the behavior of both leftists and rightists. You all have lost your damn mind.

LGBT has become a religion now honestly when the fact that celebrities come out it's marked on their wikipedia page as though it's somehow worth mentioning. The fact that "coming out" has blown up beyond what it was has absolutely turned it into cult status since people can be fired or threatened to be fired for "assuming gender" and that nonsense. The simple fact that you can't dislike some of these people, especial…

You can choose to be Christian or not, you can not choose to be gay or not, and someone asking you to use their preferred pronouns is not nonsense, and getting fired for showing rampant disrespect towards your peers based on them simply existing seems fair to me.

What happened to hckrnews in the last few years, I'm seeing more and more of this kind of BS.

Re: Coming soon: America’s own social credit system

#58

Post by The_Stone » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 5:05 PM UTC

dolni wrote: post #51

ladyattis wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should read my other comments. But for clarity sake, no I don't support blackballing, at-will employment, and the like. I just want to point out that supposed cancelling hasn't done a blessed thing in the instances that celebrities who say actual bad things publicly. The closest thing I can recall that cancelling has done anything is what happened to James Gunn and Kathy Griffin for their supposed misdeeds (cring…

> I just want to point out that supposed cancelling hasn't done a blessed thing in the instances that celebrities who say actual bad things publicly. Huh?! Gina Carano was fired by Disney earlier this year because she had the audacity to draw a parallel between today's political vitriol and the Holocaust [1]. This happened precisely because of the power of the current outrage mob. If you don't see the effects that th…

Gina Carano was fired because it was a gross and offensive parallel to make that republicans of today are treated anywhere nearly as wrongly as Jewish people in Nazi Germany. There is a nuance.

This also says nothing of Gina Carano's history of transphobic comments, which Disney didn't care about because they didn't make as much press but still says much about her character.

Re: Coming soon: America’s own social credit system

#59

Post by throwaway894345 » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 5:21 PM UTC

ladyattis wrote: post #9

dolni wrote: post #2

The irony is so thick, it is palpable. Leftist politics suggest that criminals should have a second chance and be able to reintegrate into society. But do something completely legal that I don't like, and you're cancelled forever.

You all keep calling things being cancelled when they're just plain old social ostracism of the past. Why can't you all just admit you don't like it when someone else does the social ostracizing instead of giving it a new fancy word to distance yourselves from the same behavior you all do?

Concerted campaigns to discredit someone for mundane “offenses” (which are well within the overton window) especially by coercing employers to terminate the target is not “plain social ostracism” and indeed the people who engaged in this in the past were themselves socially ostracized for their bad behavior.

To be clear, we’re talking about signing a letter endorsing free-speech ideals or Tweeting research on the efficacy of non-violent protest or saying a Chinese word that sounds vaguely like a racial slur.

Further, the term “cancelled” is not a term that the critics of cancel culture invented, but rather it was invented by the early participants of cancel culture.

It seems so obvious that cancel culture and social ostracism are different things that I don’t understand how anyone could confuse them in good faith.

Re: Coming soon: America’s own social credit system

#60

Post by yeetawayhn » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 5:22 PM UTC

happytoexplain wrote: post #29

timw4mail wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Viral ostracism is quite different from the local-scale shunning of the past. Having a torrent of people shunning you for someone disagreeing with you is unjust.

"Having a torrent of people shunning you for someone disagreeing with you" is the same reductionist self-pity that people have used for ages to defend themselves from ostracism, which may be just or unjust, more subjectively or less subjectively. Sure, the internet amplified it, like everything else with a social component, but I think you're wrong to imply they are qualitatively different.

If scale doesn't matter, then there is no difference between individual officers observing a person of interest and a city-wide network of traffic cameras observing that person.

Hopefully you can now see why your objection is weak.