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Early Retirement (2006)

philip.greenspun.com

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Re: Early Retirement (2006)

#181

Post by handrous »

flowerlad wrote: post #112
handrous wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ACA plans in my state expose you to over $20,000 in annual risk, for a family plan. That's assuming you don't end up with a huge "out of network" bill by accident (and their networks are terrible, so that's very possible). I think the "gold" plan is a little better (though a much worse deal if you're having to pay the full premium, overall) but I'm not sure how much income-based help you get for the top-tier (and sti…

Not sure what you mean by "annual risk". Do you mean out-of-pocket costs? > That's assuming you don't end up with a huge "out of network" bill by accident New laws mostly take care of that. No more out-of-network doctors walking by your hospital bed while you're sleeping and sending you a $5000 bill. Also if you have an emergency while out of state your insurance takes care of it. The "metal" plans all have the same…

> Not sure what you mean by "annual risk". Do you mean out-of-pocket costs?

Yeah, max out-of-pocket per year. Something like ~$24,000 family / $12,000 individual on our ACA plans. Gold and Silver ACA plans are basically identical in this state, you're just guaranteeing you pay more in premiums with Gold (so, in a bad year, the totals work out about the same, but in a good year the Gold is more expensive). We have exactly two ACA plan providers here, and their plans are nearly identical except that they have very different (both terrible) networks.

So if you get cancer you'll be paying $12,000/yr, on top of premiums (another $20,000 or so, for a family silver plan, if you're not getting assistance) until you're cured or you're dead. Two people get very sick, about $24,000 per year that they remain very sick, on top of premiums.

Re: Early Retirement (2006)

#182

Post by tonyedgecombe »

showerst wrote: post #92
tejohnso wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> unless you want to live like a single 24 year old your whole life. Controlling expenses and living a humble life style is pretty much the opposite of living like a single 24 year old. At least for me and most of the single 24 year olds I knew back then. It takes wisdom and maturity to realize that you don't need all that stuff. And if you can find a partner with the same outlook, you can certainly avoid spending te…

> It takes wisdom and maturity to realize that you don't need all that stuff This is _exactly_ what I take issue with. Look, "live below your means and be thoughtful about what spending will make you happier" is great advice. So is "plan for a future where you don't have to work". "Get a high paying remote job from a young age with no student loans, move somewhere cheap, actually find a partner there, don't dare find…

I suspect the people who are able to keep a tight reign on their spending do so for its own sake. They get some satisfaction from it before they even start thinking about retirement.

Re: Early Retirement (2006)

#184

Post by voidfunc »

mlcrypto wrote: post #169
simonh wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once you have kids the calculation changes, at least for me. I could retire comfortably in a few years, but my earning power is at it's peak. Every extra year I work provides significant extra resources for my family, to help the girls afford their first houses and get a good start in life when they graduate. I'll probably work another 5 years beyond what I'd probably do if it was purely about self-interest for mysel…

Why can't your kids work for their own house? It builds character. My mom told me I had to get a scholarship if I wanted my college paid, so I got one. Nobody is going to hand me a house either so I sought (and received) exceptional return in Bitcoin

So you got lucky on a crypto-gamble and you think your situation applies to everyone?

Help could mean a lot of things... it could mean $20K towards their down payment all the way up to buying the damn thing, the poster didn't really clarify.

This whole "builds character" thing is a bunch of bullshit that people spout off to poo-poo those that have a leg up in life.

Re: Early Retirement (2006)

#185

Post by screye »

justinram11 wrote: post #105

Perhaps I'm a bit naive in my mid-20's, but I actually don't think that I'd hate working 15-20 hours a week (at a low-stress company) for the rest of my life. Or at least until I was physically unable. I've recently been wondering if I should instead be trying to view life as a "sustainable marathon" rather than trying to cash out quickly (FIRE).

> I've recently been wondering if I should instead be trying to view life as a "sustainable marathon" rather than trying to cash out quickly (FIRE).

Honestly, that isn't incompatible with FIRE. Being financially independent allows you to take the few months off needed to find that 20 hours a week / low stress job.

In the community, retirement is viewed more as a 'freedom from compelled labor' than 'do nothing for the rest of your life'.

Re: Early Retirement (2006)

#186

Post by arenaninja »

jorblumesea wrote: post #55
arenaninja wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I max out my HSA and don't withdraw since it became available to me (unfortunately this was until my 30s) Have you considered moving to a country with quality healthcare at cheaper price? Mexico comes to mind

All this does is avoid taxes on the exorbitant amount you're paying. It doesn't make the American healthcare system significantly cheaper. Also, HSA cannot be used to pay for insurance premiums.

oh I agree the issue is systemic and I'd love to see Medicare for all or similar. But I don't think the agents of change are moving fast enough to affect my retirement

It would be interesting to have Medicare age gradually lowered to ~26, but I have not seen this floated around as a possibility

Re: Early Retirement (2006)

#187

Post by gedy »

justinram11 wrote: post #105

Perhaps I'm a bit naive in my mid-20's, but I actually don't think that I'd hate working 15-20 hours a week (at a low-stress company) for the rest of my life. Or at least until I was physically unable. I've recently been wondering if I should instead be trying to view life as a "sustainable marathon" rather than trying to cash out quickly (FIRE).

No company I've every worked at would consider a part time role like this, especially for older, semi-retired person.

Re: Early Retirement (2006)

#188

Post by tryingtogetback »

ok2938 wrote: post #163
tryingtogetback wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"anti-capitalist" - how does one become an "anti-capitalist" when it's abundantly clear that, even though it's not a perfect system, it's the best system there is? It's the system that facilitates competition, social progress, scientific advancements etc etc I'm thinking "anti-capitalist" attitude is usually a result of the poor decisions in early adulthood (decisions regarding education, reproduction, career, social…

Let me ask you, why aren't more workers "happy capitalists" and praise this way of living? Why aren't the warehouse workers more happy? Or the people soon displaced by computers and algorithms? Why aren't they look forward to a life of less chore and more free time? Why do so many people protest against climate change? Why is it ok for corporations to externalize costs? Why is all the considered good? I'm all for com…

> why aren't more workers "happy capitalists"

Only idiots are always happy. If we see flaws, no matter how small, we try to proceed to the next level by fixing those, there is a brief moment of perceived happiness, but it passes rather quickly, and so cycle continues. What you described is Work-In-Progress. Capitalism is the system that allows that, it allows itself to self-correct.

> Or the people soon displaced by computers and algorithms

Everything that can be automated - should be automated. Humans is a creative reserve that is limited, physical labor needs to become obsolete. Also you don't see any horse carriage operators complaining about being displaced by automotive industry, do you?

> let just not forget that we live in a "society" and not in a box, everyone for themselves

That's right, everyone is not against you, they are just for themselves.

Re: Early Retirement (2006)

#189

Post by lotsofpulp »

handrous wrote: post #181
flowerlad wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what you mean by "annual risk". Do you mean out-of-pocket costs? > That's assuming you don't end up with a huge "out of network" bill by accident New laws mostly take care of that. No more out-of-network doctors walking by your hospital bed while you're sleeping and sending you a $5000 bill. Also if you have an emergency while out of state your insurance takes care of it. The "metal" plans all have the same…

> Not sure what you mean by "annual risk". Do you mean out-of-pocket costs? Yeah, max out-of-pocket per year. Something like ~$24,000 family / $12,000 individual on our ACA plans. Gold and Silver ACA plans are basically identical in this state, you're just guaranteeing you pay more in premiums with Gold (so, in a bad year, the totals work out about the same, but in a good year the Gold is more expensive). We have exa…

https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/out-of-pocket-maximum-li...

> For the 2021 plan year: The out-of-pocket limit for a Marketplace plan can’t be more than $8,550 for an individual and $17,100 for a family.

Re: Early Retirement (2006)

#190

Post by learnvella »

neogodless wrote: post #138
justinram11 wrote: post #105

Perhaps I'm a bit naive in my mid-20's, but I actually don't think that I'd hate working 15-20 hours a week (at a low-stress company) for the rest of my life. Or at least until I was physically unable. I've recently been wondering if I should instead be trying to view life as a "sustainable marathon" rather than trying to cash out quickly (FIRE).

There's nothing particularly wrong with this mindset, but let's be explicit about your options: 1. Spend any extra money you make, knowing that you'll work 20 hours / week at least until social security arrives. If you start to hate work or having trouble finding work, you likely have very little to fall back on. Social security might not support your lifestyle, so expect a very pared back retirement late in life. 2.…

why does spending way less than you make imply hating your job and being miserable? i dont think the idea of spending money as a primary mechanism for life happiness holds up. if you're a happy person internally it doesn't really matter if you use cheap hand towels at home or silk ones- it doesn't matter if you're eating filet mignon or chicken legs.

> hoping once you have a huge nest egg, you can make yourself happy!

this is a super uncharitable way of putting the ideas of fi. i would suggest the idea is more like "learn to view money as apart from happiness and recognize that the things that make you happy are more on the intrinsic side of things- self growth, real relationships with people near you, serving others and dont waste the time you have on earth by giving it to some corporation or other entitiy unless you want to"

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