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Early Retirement (2006)

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Re: Early Retirement (2006)

#141

Post by kansface »

Scalestein wrote: post #109
ok2938 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My problem is, I'm kind of anti-capitalist, to make it short. Labor and capital and not just production factors, but they constitute a power relationship (and often a quite asymmetric one). I cannot bring myself to "invest" in something or believe that "my money works for me" - that's delusional. Money does not "work". People get all upset about the stance, but all I am saying is that everyone wants to profit off som…

As a fellow anti-capitalist I struggle with how to live in a clearly capitalist world. I'm currently on track to retire at an average age or earlier and cynically view it as buying freedom from the system. In reality it reminds me of the old company store at coal mines. Paying workers in currency which can only be spent at their own store. Breaking out of the capitalist cycle seems quite difficult to do while still m…

> Breaking out of the capitalist cycle seems quite difficult to do while still maintaining a decent quality of life.

I would suggest that's because its capitalism that provides that quality of life.

Re: Early Retirement (2006)

#142

Post by MattGaiser »

SamuelAdams wrote: post #84
MattGaiser wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on what is covered under universal health care. In Canada, doctors and hospitals are covered. But if you need a lot of drugs, you might need to keep working. You also need to budget for dental and vision, as those are also tied to employment agreements.

I'm curious about Canada. My plan is to make a lot of money in the states and retire early, then apply for Canadian citizenship and move to Canada to cover health expenses. Even if the citizenship process takes 2-4 years, would this be worth it?

The older you get and not working make it a lot harder, as many people have your plan.

So if you want to do that, come to Canada before you retire and having a job here will help you get in.

Re: Early Retirement (2006)

#143

Post by ralphc »

Retired at 55 from software development. I think it helps when your career (slash passion blah blah) is something that you don't need other people to do. I still write programs and help nonprofits with Salesforce work. Software development, writing, music, all can be done solo, and more importantly for your own fulfillment. Doctors etc. could have a problem.

Re: Early Retirement (2006)

#144

Post by splistud »

ok2938 wrote: post #81
2sk21 wrote: post #75

I retired early recently - I am in my mid 50s. It's not anywhere as hard as people seem to think. With a disciplined approach to investing, I think that it's very much possible to reach financial independence with a typical tech salary in the US. I achieved FI without an extraordinarily high salary, stock grants or participating in an IPO. There is a treasure trove of information in the Bogleheads wiki: https://www.b…

My problem is, I'm kind of anti-capitalist, to make it short. Labor and capital and not just production factors, but they constitute a power relationship (and often a quite asymmetric one). I cannot bring myself to "invest" in something or believe that "my money works for me" - that's delusional. Money does not "work". People get all upset about the stance, but all I am saying is that everyone wants to profit off som…

Clear away the clutter. Are you able to sell things for more money than you bought them for and still honor your personal values? If you can, then do so.

Forget the slogans, descriptions and tortured analysis. Can you as a human sell things to another human for more than you paid for them in a situation where you are both happy with the price?

If so, do so. If not, I suggest you take a look at what is motivating your feelings.

Re: Early Retirement (2006)

#145

Post by kilroy123 »

SamuelAdams wrote: post #84
MattGaiser wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on what is covered under universal health care. In Canada, doctors and hospitals are covered. But if you need a lot of drugs, you might need to keep working. You also need to budget for dental and vision, as those are also tied to employment agreements.

I'm curious about Canada. My plan is to make a lot of money in the states and retire early, then apply for Canadian citizenship and move to Canada to cover health expenses. Even if the citizenship process takes 2-4 years, would this be worth it?

That won't be easy unless you marry a Canadian citizen. That's what my cousin did and now he's a citizen after all these years.

Re: Early Retirement (2006)

#146

Post by SavantIdiot »

ryandrake wrote: post #68
marktangotango wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the reality of the situation; until you're eligible for (edit) medicare, health is a significant expense. When paired with the "hedonistic treadmill" of spending, early retirement takes a lot more investment than many suspect. Even at a safe withdrawal rate of 4%, $2M is "only" $80k a year. You're not driving around in Ferrari's and eating caviar on that (parodying a rich lifestyle here). Of course there are…

Will $80k a year be enough for any lifestyle? That's the question I struggle with. It's more than enough in today's dollars. But I have no idea what will happen with inflation and costs between now and retirement day. Maybe by the time I retire, $80k/yr will be poverty level. Maybe health insurance premiums alone will cost $80k/yr. Who knows! What will the value of the dollar be and to what extent will healthcare cos…

> "How much income will you need in retirement?" How the F should I know? I can't predict the future.

Correct. But that doesn't mean you *shouldn't* plan. That's why you rebalance your portfolio every few years, and adjust your budgets, and expectations, and make lifestyle changes. It takes a lifetime to prepare for retirement. And its kinda hard to fuck up by your own hand if you are diligent: save 10-20%/yr., cover the basic investment grid, buy and hold. With 30+ years experience and many friends in the same boat, that's a winner.

Also, retiring on $100k today would require $148k/yr in 10 years with 4% inflation, so you're right, that number will at least go up via inflation.

That's why it matters who you vote for. Medicare/Medicaid will be your primary healthcare in your 60's, but we absolutely need the ACA/single-payer, not just for early retirees, but to prevent insurance companies from forever inflating premiums and bankrupting us.

Re: Early Retirement (2006)

#147

Post by throwaway894345 »

Scalestein wrote: post #109
ok2938 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My problem is, I'm kind of anti-capitalist, to make it short. Labor and capital and not just production factors, but they constitute a power relationship (and often a quite asymmetric one). I cannot bring myself to "invest" in something or believe that "my money works for me" - that's delusional. Money does not "work". People get all upset about the stance, but all I am saying is that everyone wants to profit off som…

As a fellow anti-capitalist I struggle with how to live in a clearly capitalist world. I'm currently on track to retire at an average age or earlier and cynically view it as buying freedom from the system. In reality it reminds me of the old company store at coal mines. Paying workers in currency which can only be spent at their own store. Breaking out of the capitalist cycle seems quite difficult to do while still m…

I don't understand anti-capitalism. I get that it sucks to work to provide oneself with "a decent quality of life", but the whole point of capitalism is to minimize the amount of work one needs in order to secure that "decent quality of life". I.e., capitalism is the most efficient system we've found to secure a decent quality of life for as many people as possible.

The laws of nature require that food, shelter, and healthcare require the labor of some people and apart from slavery those people need to be compensated for the fruits of their labor. In order for each of us to share in the fruits of their labor, we have to have something with which to compensate them, which is ultimately our own labor.

It feels like anti-capitalists believe there is some forest of money trees that the capitalists are sadistically preventing anyone from accessing.

Re: Early Retirement (2006)

#148

Post by throwaway894345 »

kansface wrote: post #141
Scalestein wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a fellow anti-capitalist I struggle with how to live in a clearly capitalist world. I'm currently on track to retire at an average age or earlier and cynically view it as buying freedom from the system. In reality it reminds me of the old company store at coal mines. Paying workers in currency which can only be spent at their own store. Breaking out of the capitalist cycle seems quite difficult to do while still m…

> Breaking out of the capitalist cycle seems quite difficult to do while still maintaining a decent quality of life. I would suggest that's because its capitalism that provides that quality of life.

Indeed, it seems like the parent thinks that if it weren't for capitalism no one would need to work for their food, shelter, healthcare, etc. When in reality "in order to have basic necessities one must labor" is a natural law and capitalism seeks to minimize the amount of labor required to achieve that decent quality of life. Further, the parent describes himself as participating in capitalism precisely because it is the easiest way to achieve his "decent quality of life".

This seems like the fundamental misunderstanding that anti-capitalists make--everyone wants to minimize the labor required to achieve a decent quality of life, but anti-capitalists uniquely (seem to) believe that capitalism is the reason we have to labor in the first place.

Re: Early Retirement (2006)

#149

Post by simonh »

cfeduke wrote: post #29

The greatest expense for me in retirement is now health insurance so it makes sense for me to instead work for insurance coverage and put my wealth towards an inheritance for my children. I used to naively believe once I paid off my mortgage, had a substantial retirement account and savings - a couple million dollars - I'd no longer work. It's also very difficult to get off of the treadmill of spending a lot of money…

Once you have kids the calculation changes, at least for me.

I could retire comfortably in a few years, but my earning power is at it's peak. Every extra year I work provides significant extra resources for my family, to help the girls afford their first houses and get a good start in life when they graduate. I'll probably work another 5 years beyond what I'd probably do if it was purely about self-interest for myself and my wife.

I'm lucky that I enjoy my work, so it's not a massive sacrifice, but I do enjoy my leisure activities more. I'm really looking forward to being able to go somewhere interesting in the world with the missus and just stay there for 6 months. Also I'm a Brit here in the UK so health care is just not really an issue.

Re: Early Retirement (2006)

#150

Post by cko »

justinram11 wrote: post #105

Perhaps I'm a bit naive in my mid-20's, but I actually don't think that I'd hate working 15-20 hours a week (at a low-stress company) for the rest of my life. Or at least until I was physically unable. I've recently been wondering if I should instead be trying to view life as a "sustainable marathon" rather than trying to cash out quickly (FIRE).

A 15-20 hours a week job sounds quite pleasant. I wouldn't mind working 3-4 hours a day. I would mind 8-10 hours though.
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