Live data from Hacker News

One in five American men don't work: Where's the outrage?

finance.fortune.cnn.com

51–60 of 107 posts

Re: One in five American men don't work: Where's the outrage?

#51

I'm surprised the figure quoted in the opening paragraph would include incarcerated men along with those on disability and unemployed. According to wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_Sta... 2.3 million people were incarcerated in the US, and 93% are male, so that's 2.1 million men. The article also says 4.3 Americans have been jobless for months if not years. If this number includes t…

usually, 'unemployment' figures refer only to those who are actually currently on unemployment insurance payments. which is one of the serious problems with that number.

Re: One in five American men don't work: Where's the outrage?

#52

I have experienced this first hand. I have applied for a LOT of jobs in the last 2 years and one of two things happens: They don't talk to me, or they do, and I sail past the preliminary interviews only to get rejected after the background check. I am not a felon, a terrorist, or a scourge of society. I have bad credit.(Funny/sad aside, I once went to Best Buy to see if I could get a card to finance something with th…

Banks and financial firms care.

Re: One in five American men don't work: Where's the outrage?

#53
post #31

I have experienced this first hand. I have applied for a LOT of jobs in the last 2 years and one of two things happens: They don't talk to me, or they do, and I sail past the preliminary interviews only to get rejected after the background check. I am not a felon, a terrorist, or a scourge of society. I have bad credit.(Funny/sad aside, I once went to Best Buy to see if I could get a card to finance something with th…

I heard this for the first time on HN the other day. I think (and certainly hope) it's illegal for potential employers in Australia to use your credit file as a factor in deciding whether or not to hire you. Not hiring people with bad credit seems to me to be patently absurd. Talk about kicking someone when they're down - as if non-payment of debt was a crime! It seems that the likely result of this for most is the d…

Not sure about hiring but I just checked my employment agreement (I'm in Oz) and my employer can definitely fire me if I declare bankruptcy:

  *the Company may terminate your employment without notice (no payment in lieu of notice will be paid) in any of the following circumstances:
    ×If you become unable to pay your  debts as they become due 
    ×If you are declared bankrupt;

Re: One in five American men don't work: Where's the outrage?

#54

I have experienced this first hand. I have applied for a LOT of jobs in the last 2 years and one of two things happens: They don't talk to me, or they do, and I sail past the preliminary interviews only to get rejected after the background check. I am not a felon, a terrorist, or a scourge of society. I have bad credit.(Funny/sad aside, I once went to Best Buy to see if I could get a card to finance something with th…

I've always wondered why an employer would demand good credit. Even if the person is a spendthrift, what does it matter so long as they perform their job? My employee could be living in a shack having had every single item of worth repossessed... but if they can do their job well, why wouldn't I hire them? In any case, I know what you mean - I'm from Canada, and arrived in the US after the financial meltdown and subs…

At a guess, it probably indicates that the employee is a higher than an average risk of engaging in fraud (to pay off debts), and it probably does, again on average, speak to their discipline, maturity, life skills, etc.

The trouble with that thinking is of course the multitude of reasons that someone can get into debt through no fault of their own - especially in the US with health care - the fact that people often mature faster than their credit score recovers, not to mention situations like your own where there's no credit score to begin with.

I'm glad that in my native Australia, as another poster pointed out, it's illegal to discriminate based on credit score for hiring purposes. It seems that the small amount of good businesses may get from this discrimination is way out balanced by the harm it causes society in general - though obviously I'm preaching to the choir here :)

Re: One in five American men don't work: Where's the outrage?

#55
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're reading something into the article that isn't there. Perhaps that is what the author was getting at, but he certainly didn't make it clear. Rather it could simply be referring to an increase in the number of single-income households. And salaries for women still tend to be lower than those for men. Is it sexist to point this out?

The article is sexist from the title... it is gender specific from the beginning for no apparent economic or societal reason other than to be outright sexist.

It's not mentioned in the article, but the unemployment rate among men is higher than among women. Even if it weren't, there is absolutely nothing sexist about an article which addresses unemployment for one sex to the exclusion of the other, just as there would be nothing racist about an article on unemployment among blacks, whites, et cetera.

Re: One in five American men don't work: Where's the outrage?

#56

I'd wager close to another 1 in 5 works for the government directly or indirectly. And I assume we're not including retirees in any of this. The ratio of retirees to workers continues to get worse. In the 1940s, there were 42 workers per retiree. Today there are 3.3 workers per retiree. So you have a shrinking group of people who are actually producing (total workforce minus unemployed, minus goverment workers, minus…

I am curious as to why you state that government employees are not producing?

Some of them produce useful goods and services, but at a drastically lower efficiency than the private sector due to lack of competition and economic incentives (spending other people´s money). Still it´s good that someone is planning out the roads and running fire departments, even if they´re bad at it. On the other hand, the government also produces a lot of counterproductive ´services´ like war, financial meltdowns, and software patents. It´s in no way obvious that government employees as a whole do less harm than good.

Re: One in five American men don't work: Where's the outrage?

#57

I have experienced this first hand. I have applied for a LOT of jobs in the last 2 years and one of two things happens: They don't talk to me, or they do, and I sail past the preliminary interviews only to get rejected after the background check. I am not a felon, a terrorist, or a scourge of society. I have bad credit.(Funny/sad aside, I once went to Best Buy to see if I could get a card to finance something with th…

I've always wondered why an employer would demand good credit. Even if the person is a spendthrift, what does it matter so long as they perform their job? My employee could be living in a shack having had every single item of worth repossessed... but if they can do their job well, why wouldn't I hire them? In any case, I know what you mean - I'm from Canada, and arrived in the US after the financial meltdown and subs…

I'm guessing your in the bay area? Goto the bank of america close to the stanford mall (which is next door to stanford), open an ebanking checking account and credit card. There is a canadian credit program that BoA has that should give you a ~$2000 credit limit card. Most BoA people are fairly clueless (Stanford mall BoA employees are pretty good!), but they do have it. If you can't go there, ask the BoA retail banker to look up the "Diplomat, Large Corporate and Canadian Client Consumer Credit Card Special Handling Form" and the "Bank of America credit card application - BankAmericard Power Rewards Visa Card Diplomat, Large Corporate and Canadian Clients" and they'll have to fill out a W-8BEN since you haven't had a US tax return yet. They'll also need your employment verification letter (your address on the letter will also help), your passport with your visa, your Canadian SIN and your american SSN.

Citibank also has a program where if your a 'newcommer' and can show proof of $1000-$2000 average balance in an american bank account for 3 months or $5000+ in a canadian bank account for 6+ months, they will give you a credit card. They'll need the employment verification letter with your total compensation and address (and passport, and SSN card, and other standard things). If I'm guessing your wage correctly you can get a $9000+ credit limit card from citi. I went to a citibank on El Camino close to Stanford.

Thirdly, Capital One has a newcommer card. I just filled out the application for that online and I got a $500 limit card. I think you just need a new/blank SSN for that one to work. If you can actually talk to an actual person, you might be able to get a better credit limit. They also offered to open a secured card with me when I talked to them on the phone.

http://www.capitalone.com/creditcards/newcomer-credit-card/

Also if you've had an RBC account for 6+ months in Canada, you can get an american credit card from them over the phone. They're a big PITA about it although so I eventually didn't go that route. HSBC premier clients can get sweet credit transfer services worldwide, the US included. I was told in Canada that they do credit transfers after having any sort of account for 3 months with them, but the HSBC banker said they thought only premier clients could get that (that was at the palo alto branch where ~90% of their clients are premier clients, on a barely staffed saturday, so she said she might be wrong). On the east coast TD bank also has a much larger presence, but they will only service you if you live on the east coast. Also American Express canada will also transfer your card over to the US if you've had a card with them in Canada. Also applying for those airline credit cards inside airports and W-8BEN and the employment letter might work too.

If you want to avoid credit checks most of the time, go room mates and explain you just moved from canada. As long as you have a job most roommates don't care about credit histories. People in the bay area are big flakes about roommates, pounce on it and get it setup (deposit and all) right there if you like the place.

Also, best kind of banking there is BoA ebanking for atm cash/check deposits and charles schwab for your paycheck/main account. Schwab refunds all ATM fees worldwide and they don't charge a currency exchange spread, unlike the %2-3 you get everywhere. Great for whenever you fly back to Canada, or travel anywhere in the world. They don't give duplicate cards although, you have to open another free account with them to do that.

Re: One in five American men don't work: Where's the outrage?

#58

There's lots of outrage - it's called the Tea Party.

and it's summarily laughed at. edit: not that it doesn't deserve to be.

From the little I know about the Tea Party it seems to be a dumping ground for anyone who ever thought that the government didn't listen to them. From people that think we should ban gay people from 'merica, to people that think that socializing health care is an Obama 'Nazi policy.'

Re: One in five American men don't work: Where's the outrage?

#59
post #16

So if a tool made in China cost $20 and the same kind made in USA cost $100, which one do you think people are going to buy at the hardware store (even if the one made in China lasts 1/4th as long). What if there was a tax that made the one made in China cost $70 - you think the one made in USA would have a fighting chance? I think so. It would create a whole bunch of jobs because there would be less impulse to move…

You know what happens if we tax the hell out of cheap overseas goods? Everything gets more expensive. Cost of living skyrockets and wages would have to go up commensurately if people were going to survive/thrive. Businesses who raised wages would have to curtail hiring because more of their revenues were going to wages. Any they'd keep shipping jobs overseas because of the healthy margins selling in overseas markets.…

All of those negatives have already happened precisely because we don't have a smart trade policy.

Re: One in five American men don't work: Where's the outrage?

#60
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what way? Not that I disagree, but please expand on your statement?

Sure. It's been more than a generation since women started making more money than men in some households due to increases in equality between the sexes. The phrasing and positioning used implies that a stay-at-home dad is something that we should be reacting to as an economic problem. In other words, it required the assumption that men are the proper breadwinners in heterosexual households.

I agree, in that the article is sexist by omitting half of the adult population! When reading it, I was expecting to see the equivalent numbers for women out of the workforce, but the author didn't provide this information. Women have an equal 'right' to work, but this is ignored by the article.
Post reply on HN