Early Retirement (2006) • Hacker News Board

Re: Early Retirement (2006)

#81

Post by ok2938 » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 3:42 PM UTC

2sk21 wrote: post #75

I retired early recently - I am in my mid 50s. It's not anywhere as hard as people seem to think. With a disciplined approach to investing, I think that it's very much possible to reach financial independence with a typical tech salary in the US. I achieved FI without an extraordinarily high salary, stock grants or participating in an IPO. There is a treasure trove of information in the Bogleheads wiki: https://www.b…

My problem is, I'm kind of anti-capitalist, to make it short. Labor and capital and not just production factors, but they constitute a power relationship (and often a quite asymmetric one).

I cannot bring myself to "invest" in something or believe that "my money works for me" - that's delusional. Money does not "work".

People get all upset about the stance, but all I am saying is that everyone wants to profit off someone else' work and I do not think that's the best way forward. Especially not in an era, where labor overall will decrease in value (we will continue to automate more and more) - which just means poverty for anyone w/o capital (it's that simple).

Edit: Also, I'm not speaking as a "loser" of this system - but on track to the first million - it's just that I can imagine another world and so many people take the "capitalist framework" as a given - which it just not is. There are ways to think about society in a more nuanced way, without losing all the competitive niceties of capitalism.

Re: Early Retirement (2006)

#82

Post by beervirus » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 3:44 PM UTC

rubicon33 wrote: post #78

cfeduke wrote: post #29

The greatest expense for me in retirement is now health insurance so it makes sense for me to instead work for insurance coverage and put my wealth towards an inheritance for my children. I used to naively believe once I paid off my mortgage, had a substantial retirement account and savings - a couple million dollars - I'd no longer work. It's also very difficult to get off of the treadmill of spending a lot of money…

As a mid-30s software developer who is trying to save as much as possible, with the hopes of retiring before I'm old and deprecate, this really sucks to read. $2 million in investments AND a payed off mortgage and still, it doesn't pencil out to retire? Seems like over the past decade+ the 'value' of even $1 million has become more and more diluted. To support even just a middle class, to upper middle class lifestyle…

Inflation is very real, and it’s most apparent in home values right now. Even if you pay off your mortgage, your property taxes keep going up as values increase.

Re: Early Retirement (2006)

#83

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 3:44 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #68

marktangotango wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the reality of the situation; until you're eligible for (edit) medicare, health is a significant expense. When paired with the "hedonistic treadmill" of spending, early retirement takes a lot more investment than many suspect. Even at a safe withdrawal rate of 4%, $2M is "only" $80k a year. You're not driving around in Ferrari's and eating caviar on that (parodying a rich lifestyle here). Of course there are…

Will $80k a year be enough for any lifestyle? That's the question I struggle with. It's more than enough in today's dollars. But I have no idea what will happen with inflation and costs between now and retirement day. Maybe by the time I retire, $80k/yr will be poverty level. Maybe health insurance premiums alone will cost $80k/yr. Who knows! What will the value of the dollar be and to what extent will healthcare cos…

[deleted]

Re: Early Retirement (2006)

#84

Post by SamuelAdams » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 3:44 PM UTC

MattGaiser wrote: post #62

cyberlurker wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do people in countries with universal healthcare not have this problem? What are the types of products and services that are so significant? Surely we aren’t talking about things like Netflix and utilities?

Depends on what is covered under universal health care. In Canada, doctors and hospitals are covered. But if you need a lot of drugs, you might need to keep working. You also need to budget for dental and vision, as those are also tied to employment agreements.

I'm curious about Canada. My plan is to make a lot of money in the states and retire early, then apply for Canadian citizenship and move to Canada to cover health expenses. Even if the citizenship process takes 2-4 years, would this be worth it?

Re: Early Retirement (2006)

#85

Post by _wldu » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 3:44 PM UTC

Why isn't healthcare insurance more like car insurance? Almost everyone can afford to pay car insurance and are not worried about going broke and filing for bankruptcy if they have an accident or get a speeding ticket.

A friend got covid, almost died and then got a large five figure medical bill. They had insurance via the employer, but the hospital ER/ICU they were transported to was out of network. How is a very sick person in the back of an ambulance suppose to handle this in America?

Re: Early Retirement (2006)

#86

Post by gfiorav » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 3:44 PM UTC

UnpossibleJim wrote: post #35

gfiorav wrote: post #12

I had a version of this realization early in my life. I wanted to be a musician. I thought that school and other things in life were a burden and that once I was devoted to music, I'd be happy and full. I got my dream by 18 years old. When music became my work I hated it. Made me think differently about life.

I had a similar situation. I worked hard and went back to school and became a professional artist. I was paid decently, but ended up never drawing or painting for myself. I hated it. It took me close to a decade to start liking the process of creating visual arts again, and even then it was tentative. I read something not all that long ago that I wished I had read when I was much younger. "Make something you like you…

I took me 10 years to buy an MPC again. And I barely touch it. The scars are real.

A couple good things though:

- I can finally listen to music without overanalyzing it. Which is to say I can now enjoy music.

- I find a lot of ways to use creativity in my job, and has given me an edge thus far (or so I think).

Re: Early Retirement (2006)

#87

Post by germinalphrase » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 3:44 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #58

cyberlurker wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do people in countries with universal healthcare not have this problem? What are the types of products and services that are so significant? Surely we aren’t talking about things like Netflix and utilities?

It's a lesser problem, but there are also less opportunities to accumulate wealth rapidly. Lots of folks I know get FatFIRE (>=$5MM assets, $200k/year in income at 4% SWR) in the US and then retire to Portugal [1] (which has universal healthcare, and gets you access to the EU). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portugal_Golden_Visa

Are these people you know Americans? I admire the spirit of such a move, but losing immediate contact with friends/family would make it challenging (for me).

Re: Early Retirement (2006)

#88

Post by aidenn0 » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 3:44 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #58

cyberlurker wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do people in countries with universal healthcare not have this problem? What are the types of products and services that are so significant? Surely we aren’t talking about things like Netflix and utilities?

It's a lesser problem, but there are also less opportunities to accumulate wealth rapidly. Lots of folks I know get FatFIRE (>=$5MM assets, $200k/year in income at 4% SWR) in the US and then retire to Portugal [1] (which has universal healthcare, and gets you access to the EU). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portugal_Golden_Visa

That's a crazy good deal. As long as the 500k doesn't get completely wiped out someone with a family likely comes out ahead on health-care costs alone (though I understand the tax implications of US citizens abroad are complicated).

Re: Early Retirement (2006)

#89

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 3:44 PM UTC

MattGaiser wrote: post #7

awb wrote: post #3

> Retirement forces you to stop thinking that it is your job that holds you back. For most people the depressing truth is that they aren't that organized, disciplined, or motivated. Maybe, but I don’t know anyone who’s less happy being retired. They might not be living their retirement fantasy, but the pressure and stress of having to work is gone.

Both my grandfathers have repeatedly tried to retire and within 3 weeks went back to work until in the case of one his boss changed and in the case of the other, at 77 he is still working. For many their work is very core to their identity and without it, they have little to do.

[deleted]

Re: Early Retirement (2006)

#90

Post by nafizh » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 3:45 PM UTC

52-6F-62 wrote: post #27

And people say studying humanities is useless... Before you can even begin to approach questions like this, you have to get a lay of the land at least... read an article on philosophy and religion in the encyclopedia. These aren't new questions. They've been dissected and applied to the furthest reaches of our understanding. It's all written down and at our fingertips 24/7. They underlie the primary question in the a…

You can read all the philosophy in the world. It doesn't automatically turn into actionable realities. Also, any philosophy is subjective, you are a human, you said something, I am a human, I beg to differ and so on and on....