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Law school applicants surge 13%, biggest increase since dot-com bubble

reuters.com

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Re: Law school applicants surge 13%, biggest increase since dot-com bubble

#121

Post by diognesofsinope »

rayiner wrote: post #78
pmoriarty wrote: post #7

When I was considering going to law school I learned some sobering facts: - something like 75% of lawyers would not recommend their children go in to law - there is a high rate of burnout among lawyers - while the public perception is that lawyers are extremely high paid, that's only the case some elite lawyers that went to elite schools and work for elite firms[1] For someone like me, who doesn't just want to help t…

Law is a well paying profession in general, insofar as many can make high five figures and low six figures. That’s good money for real life. You’re correct that only a relatively few people make the kind of money people think lawyers make, and the profession is highly segregated by education. Most people at my law school (northwestern) went on to a big firm job with a salary of $200k rising to $500k after 8 years. A…

>I will quibble with your first point a bit. Law is a profession that attracts large numbers of people who default into it because they can’t think of what to do with their liberal arts undergraduate degree. It’s a demanding, detail oriented, analytical job, and many of those people become quite disillusioned with it.

Underrated comment -- literally half of all lawyers I've worked with (financial regulation) admit they chose law because they didn't like math.

Re: Law school applicants surge 13%, biggest increase since dot-com bubble

#122

Post by michaelt »

deelowe wrote: post #117
rayiner wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Law is a well paying profession in general, insofar as many can make high five figures and low six figures. That’s good money for real life. You’re correct that only a relatively few people make the kind of money people think lawyers make, and the profession is highly segregated by education. Most people at my law school (northwestern) went on to a big firm job with a salary of $200k rising to $500k after 8 years. A…

You can get “high five figures” with a GED and a factory job. Why would anyone go through the stress and expense of law school for that?

According to [1] full-time employed people with professional degrees earn a median of $117,679 while full time employed high school graduates earn a median of $38,102.

If it were easy to earn high five figures with a GED, wouldn't the earnings of GED holders be much higher?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_...

Re: Law school applicants surge 13%, biggest increase since dot-com bubble

#123

Post by [deleted] »

phamilton wrote: post #34
bississippi wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where I live plumbers make more than an average software engineer. Owner operator plumbers make close to half a million a year. And don’t get me started on Plumbers operating a min of 5 trucks they make atleast a million and half. I know this because my brother law is a plumber.

I'm in California and I had a water leak on the property that cost me $500 on my water bill. My water provider offered a credit for the overage if I can prove that I fixed it. A local plumber charged me $400, provided me with the exact paperwork to send in, and I got a $500 credit. What a wild economy. I have no complaints, I understand why it works that way. And all my plumber had to do was smile, provide a bit of c…

[deleted]

Re: Law school applicants surge 13%, biggest increase since dot-com bubble

#124

Post by the_monocle »

user5994461 wrote: post #88
pmoriarty wrote: post #7

When I was considering going to law school I learned some sobering facts: - something like 75% of lawyers would not recommend their children go in to law - there is a high rate of burnout among lawyers - while the public perception is that lawyers are extremely high paid, that's only the case some elite lawyers that went to elite schools and work for elite firms[1] For someone like me, who doesn't just want to help t…

The trouble in law is to get qualified (in the UK). If you can't finish the 5 years of study or you can't find an internship at the end (extremely competitive), you've wasted your entire time and money and you will never be able to give legal advice and charge £500 an hour. But after that it's a walk in the park. The competitiveness of lawyer and developer jobs is really not comparable. All companies have a legal dep…

> because only tech companies hire developers

That is completely wrong? The FAR majority of developers do not work in tech companies. Most big corporations have internal developer teams, or they employ some contractors that do development for them. But MOST big companies employ developers in basicly all industries.

Re: Law school applicants surge 13%, biggest increase since dot-com bubble

#125

Post by wayoutthere »

rayiner wrote: post #78
pmoriarty wrote: post #7

When I was considering going to law school I learned some sobering facts: - something like 75% of lawyers would not recommend their children go in to law - there is a high rate of burnout among lawyers - while the public perception is that lawyers are extremely high paid, that's only the case some elite lawyers that went to elite schools and work for elite firms[1] For someone like me, who doesn't just want to help t…

Law is a well paying profession in general, insofar as many can make high five figures and low six figures. That’s good money for real life. You’re correct that only a relatively few people make the kind of money people think lawyers make, and the profession is highly segregated by education. Most people at my law school (northwestern) went on to a big firm job with a salary of $200k rising to $500k after 8 years. A…

For someone making an engineering salary, “high five figures” is around a 50% pay cut.

I have friends with no degree at all pulling down $250k in software. I have a lawyer friend with a law degree and 10 years experience in corporate litigation who makes $125k (but has student loans on top of it, so take-home is way less). Given the amount of stress and long hours, I would view it as a poor move for burned out engineers.

I don’t know if the value proposition is there anymore, but when I burned out from engineering I went the MBA / tech executive route and that absolutely has been worth it from a comp standpoint. I work a lot less, I can delegate the tasks I’m not good at, and feel like I have control over my career in a way I never did as an engineer.

Re: Law school applicants surge 13%, biggest increase since dot-com bubble

#126

Post by tester34 »

sokoloff wrote: post #71
tonyedgecombe wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if it's people not taking a gap year, after all there isn't much point if you can't travel.

I think a lot of people took a gap year last year (who otherwise wouldn’t have). Why pay for college if you won’t get to actually go? Many of those people are showing up now as applicants.

To graduate faster

Re: Law school applicants surge 13%, biggest increase since dot-com bubble

#128

Post by wayoutthere »

IkmoIkmo wrote: post #82
google234123 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Starting salaries are 200 to 300k at the best firms. Partners make much more.

Well-paid/experienced partners, yes. Starting salary for partners is around 300k at a big four. That's true for FAANG starting salaries, too. The only difference is it takes 15 years to make partner at a big four, whereas (especially with college-age side hustle experience) you can start with a few years of experience. Oh, the other difference is you can spend a few hundred thousand to buy-in as a partner, as opposed…

Starting for partners is $300k at a big four but that does not include equity grants or profit sharing. It also rapidly climbs from $300k, especially if you can make it past the first 3 years. A senior partner with 10+ years as a partner can pull down $20M+ a year easily and would be a candidate for C-suite jobs basically anywhere if they decided to leave.

But making it into the partnership is more about playing politics than being good, so it’s definitely not for everyone.

Re: Law school applicants surge 13%, biggest increase since dot-com bubble

#129

Post by long_time_gone »

deelowe wrote: post #117
rayiner wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Law is a well paying profession in general, insofar as many can make high five figures and low six figures. That’s good money for real life. You’re correct that only a relatively few people make the kind of money people think lawyers make, and the profession is highly segregated by education. Most people at my law school (northwestern) went on to a big firm job with a salary of $200k rising to $500k after 8 years. A…

You can get “high five figures” with a GED and a factory job. Why would anyone go through the stress and expense of law school for that?

Factory jobs are absolutely stressful (mentally and physically).

Re: Law school applicants surge 13%, biggest increase since dot-com bubble

#130

Post by JumpCrisscross »

Other side of the coin:

“Law school was once considered a surefire ticket to a comfortable life. Years of tuition increases have made it a fast way to get buried in debt.

Recent graduates of the University of Miami School of Law who used federal loans borrowed a median of $163,000. Two years later, half were earning $59,000 or less. That’s the biggest gap between debt and earnings among the top 100 law schools as ranked by U.S. News & World Report, a Wall Street Journal analysis of federal data found.”

https://www.wsj.com/articles/law-school-student-debt-low-sal...

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