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Where are the robotic bricklayers?

constructionphysics.substack.com

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Re: Where are the robotic bricklayers?

#351

Post by phreeza »

spyckie2 wrote: post #31

The value of work is not in the work done; it's in the decisions being made. It's the ability to handle edge cases, to work your way through ambiguity, to "unstuck" a stuck situation, and to resolve tricky unforeseen issues. If you build a robot that only handles the main workflow and can't handle any of the exceptions, you're not automating anything; you're building a convenience tool. Basically, you're removing som…

> If you build a robot that only handles the main workflow and can't handle any of the exceptions, you're not automating anything.

Sounds to me like this criticism could have been made of the dishwasher and washing machine, too. I suppose what matters is the ratio of edge cases to regular cases.

Re: Where are the robotic bricklayers?

#352

Post by uCantCauseUCant »

turtlebits wrote: post #317
com2kid wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bricks can last a long time. Brick houses also hold their value well. No one cares about a brick facade. Also why do you say bricks aren't structural? I assumed those 100 year old brick houses used bricks for structural support.

Bricks are for decorative purposes nowadays (pretty siding). They aren't practical as you won't meet code for insulation. You will also need to frame another interior wall for vapor control. A single layer brick wall isn't structural.

There are foam bricks which meet the insulation codes in europe - in one wall with no additions. Will all be special waste though one day.

Re: Where are the robotic bricklayers?

#353

Post by oriolid »

aaron695 wrote: post #152
scotty79 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plattenbau

Looking at the documentation on those - "Industrialized Building In the Soviet Union" (1969) - "Panels and slabs average 5 tons up to a maximum of 10 tons. Transportation is considered within economic limits if factory to job site is no more than 150 kilometres" Which is what the original article says on pre-fab - "Because of transportation costs, they are all limited to selling within a few hundred miles of their fa…

These are quite common in Finland, not just Rovaniemi (which does not really have extraordinary cost of living unless you have electric heating). So, here's how I see it:

- When whole new neighborhoods are built, it's not unusual to start with building a factory to manufacture the elements. For smaller projects there's usually a factory within 150 kilometers. This is not Siberia.

- There's always insulation and outer wall on top of the panels. The result is not always pretty, but not necessarily worse than concrete poured on site.

- The construction crews aren't always competent and there are many ways to screw up a concrete cast. Quality wise both precast and on site casting have their own problems.

- The seams between element need periodic repair. If the house owners decide to save money here, it's going to be expensive later. They're also a huge sound insulation problem.

Re: Where are the robotic bricklayers?

#354

Post by oblio »

cudgy wrote: post #323
eloisius wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My dad was a stair builder his whole career until finally becoming a freelance carpenter after getting laid off. Stairs, like bricks, are probably another implement that us techies use daily with absolutely no appreciation for complexity and skill involved. Spiral staircases are an incredible work of craftsmanship, or at least they were. I used to go to the shop with my dad when I was a kid. They would rig up these b…

Nice story. Tech is not always an improvement. In fact, the more years I live, the less enamored with tech I’ve become due to many examples like this.

Tech is not always an improvement, but not due to the reason described in the comment above.

His negative presentation obscures an obvious fact: lower prices create the miracle of accessibility - people who could have never afforded the previous generation can now afford the new one, and in some cases their lives are changed for the better.

I know most of us here are snobs, but let's not forget that only the King of France would have had access to colorful non-itchy clothes back in the day, and now everyone can have them.

Re: Where are the robotic bricklayers?

#355

Post by oblio »

inglor_cz wrote: post #305
version_five wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most construction relies on fit young men to do the "heavy lifting". It would be interesting to see how the dynamics changesd if technology moved the needle on the brawn->brain scale, so that the core value prop of a construction worker was not their fitness. I'm not convinced it would be for the better. Also just want to add that working in a physical job for 50 years is much better for your body than sitting at a d…

"Also just want to add that working in a physical job for 50 years is much better for your body than sitting at a desk for 50 years. " The experience of my neighbors from an industrial city is 100 per cent opposite. Physical jobs tend to consist of endless repetitive tasks that put a huge strain on certain joints and sinews while leaving other parts of your body idle. And many physical jobs will expose you to health…

Office work is also less deadly than physical work. Just look up the numbers. Hard to fall off the office chair to your death, not so hard to fall off the scaffolding to your death.

Re: Where are the robotic bricklayers?

#356

Post by brnt »

atoav wrote: post #300
mbesto wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is why partial robotic systems don't really exist; either it's a nifty tool that speeds up a small repeatable process of your work, or it's building the entire house. I think I understand your overall point, but what you said isn't exactly true. Isn't "speed up a repeatable process" essentially a partial robotic system? Just look at a modern car manufacturing plant - it's essentially one big chain of robotics…

Yeah, but houses are rarely like a serial manufactured car. Sometimes you have to lay down every row of bricks differently with a ton of unplanned (or unplannable) things to account for, because the electrician might work while you lay your brick etc. Not that you cannot automate whole houses and sell them off the shelve for cheap (see prefabs), it just isn't something that could be done at a site where your brickbot…

> Yeah, but houses are rarely like a serial manufactured car.

But aren't many of them? May be country specific, but in the one I currently reside there are tons of neighbourhoods that were built at once, 1000 homes+. In the US I've seen areas like that too. I can easily imagine a robot puts down the basics, and the individual tweaking is done later by hand.

Re: Where are the robotic bricklayers?

#357

Post by oblio »

NoPicklez wrote: post #210
makeitdouble wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> physical job for 50 years I think you’re envisioning jobs with high skill requirements or low demand, or a mix of both. Like landscaper for the town, or garbage truck operator. Otherwise you’ll generally be met with a combination of RSI, hazardous product ingestion (dust, paint fumes, exhaust…), allergies, injuries, or sheer overwork. Working a low wage low level physical job is more often than not closer to Amazon…

I just want to iterate that working an office job also carries with it its own health problems. Low physical activity from sitting all day, forward posture from sitting all day, RSI from typing and mouse movement, eye problems, overwork (Arguably more than labor jobs).

All of those are super low risk compared to having your hand chopped off by something or a ton of bricks falling on your head.

Re: Where are the robotic bricklayers?

#358

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

exporectomy wrote: post #296
SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [mortor] it’s a non-newtonian fluid, and it’s viscosity increases when it’s moved or shaken. Which is why the points about non-Newtonian fluids like mortor changing viscosity seems right on the money. Anyone trying automation with normal mortor gives me zero confidence. I like the robot truck idea, seems like a winner compared to others. Exo suits / better humans in the meantime, purpose built machines later.

Bogus reason. Plastic melt is also a non-Newtonian fluid and yet plastic parts production is thoroughly automated.

I’m not sure that tracks exactly. I think the issue is the stacking of very heavy things on top of a nnf goop.

Re: Where are the robotic bricklayers?

#359

Post by robocat »

com2kid wrote: post #295
turtlebits wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Bricks aren’t great for construction. Not structural, poor R-value, a ton of labor. Just have concrete poured or stick frame and a fake brick facade. Will probably last longer as well. Seems like the wrong problem to solve.

Bricks can last a long time. Brick houses also hold their value well. No one cares about a brick facade. Also why do you say bricks aren't structural? I assumed those 100 year old brick houses used bricks for structural support.

Structural bricks absolutely suck if you are in a high earthquake risk zone. Earthquakes or slumping really screw up brick buildings (and brick façades).

Re: Where are the robotic bricklayers?

#360

Post by Broken_Hippo »

octokatt wrote: post #98
spyckie2 wrote: post #31

The value of work is not in the work done; it's in the decisions being made. It's the ability to handle edge cases, to work your way through ambiguity, to "unstuck" a stuck situation, and to resolve tricky unforeseen issues. If you build a robot that only handles the main workflow and can't handle any of the exceptions, you're not automating anything; you're building a convenience tool. Basically, you're removing som…

I’d add to the list of why partial automation isn’t worth it: it’s more satisfying to build a brick wall than babysit a bricklaying machine. Doing the physical labor is difficult. My father was a bricklayer from ten to fifty, when he finally had to stop working. But he loved showing me the buildings he built. He helped build city government buildings, schools, libraries. The pride he felt, that he’d built something w…

I don't know. You are trading strange things here: Even if you like doing brickwork, is it worth the toll on your body? I've met a lot of construction workers: I've met fewer that are nearing retirement age that are still working - and generally, when they do work, they use the machines while folks who haven't hurt their back, shoulders, and other bits do the physical work. Not everyone needs mastery of something physical and not everyone needs to get "pride" or other positive feelings from work so long as their work isn't horrible and the hours aren't overly long.

And I bet there are plenty of folks that would rather babysit this machine than babysit the machine at the fast food place.

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