Where are the robotic bricklayers? • Hacker News Board

Re: Where are the robotic bricklayers?

#331

Post by candiodari » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:16 AM UTC

endymi0n wrote: post #304

mr_toad wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But brick laying is all about looks. I’ve seen stores with moulded facades designed to look like bricks that are attached to reinforced concrete.

From what I'm understanding the hard part of doing that stuff concrete is curation time. There's a lot of projects trying the "easy" route and effectively do additive 3D printing with concrete instead of glue. Conversely, they have the same problems... they look pretty ugly: https://www.realestate.com.au/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/0... Doing it "properly" means building proper moulding, rebar, vibration casting all…

So what people do is you build the "ugly" way (usually large panels, maybe even prefab, I doubt 3d printing is working that well right now), then cut bricks into 5 slices and stick those slices on top with glue. You can't tell it's not a brick wall except when you're standing right against it.

And of course, you only do this on visible walls. It can even be done on top of wood.

https://www.diynetwork.com/how-to/skills-and-know-how/carpen...

Re: Where are the robotic bricklayers?

#332

Post by correcthorse123 » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:17 AM UTC

coding123 wrote: post #263

munk-a wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have done some workplace automation (building support tools to automate away stupid paperwork) and I've never ever felt contempt for the people I'm building tools for. These people do extremely intelligent work and make evaluations on complex scenarios - my tools only help them minimize the silly BS that slows them down, building layered tools on top of poorly designed assistive tools or breaking out greenfield sol…

I don't understand UBI personally. In general it will have the net effect of dropping even more people out of the labor pool. Even with increasing population over the last 50 years the number of people participating is going down. Not as a percentage, but a number. With that, things like getting a plumber will skyrocket in price. I mean why should I fix your toilet if I can be at home playing video games right now? I…

I dont know the answer, but I think people will pursue sections of the labour market which cannot (yet?) be automated. Why play video games that you're frankly sick of after a few months, if you could help someone out for both a social and comparatively large financial reward?

It would also depend on the specifics of how UBI would be implemented. Where I live I could stop working and live off welfare, providing a minimal standard of living. Yet almost nobody chooses this way of life as people strive for higher living standards, and for many work plays a part in giving meaning to life.

If more and more jobs get automated this might become a problem though, assuming no new non-automatable jobs are created.

Re: Where are the robotic bricklayers?

#333

Post by NoPicklez » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:18 AM UTC

oldsecondhand wrote: post #308

NoPicklez wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just want to iterate that working an office job also carries with it its own health problems. Low physical activity from sitting all day, forward posture from sitting all day, RSI from typing and mouse movement, eye problems, overwork (Arguably more than labor jobs).

> RSI from typing Most office jobs don't involve that much typing. You can also buy keyboards with softer switches. (RSI was more common in the days of mechanical typewriters.) Low physical acitivity can be made up for going to the gym after work. It sounds to me you never did a day of manual labor in your life.

Well not to discredit your point but a day in the life off wouldn't really bring to life any of the points we're discussing when it comes to physical injuries. Without you picking at each of my points in detail, RSI is still an injury people STILL DO get nonetheless. In the same way that the introduction of the hard hat hasn't completely stopped people having their head caved in.

My point, was that both physical/labor intensive jobs and office jobs bring their own types of workplace related problems. And just because the job may carry with it a risk of physical injury doesn't mean the job should be automated. Afterall, any type of movement the body does carries with it a risk of injury.

Re: Where are the robotic bricklayers?

#334

Post by colordrops » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:18 AM UTC

coding123 wrote: post #257

caf wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. A working automated bricklaying machine would be like a C compiler for brickmasons.

It doesn't perfectly translate IMHO. A bricklayer contractor that has a mostly automated machine doing 80% of the job would probably hire maybe 1 guy to get shit off the truck and clean dropped mortar. Normally he might have 2 or 3 extra guys to do some stretches or turns or something like that.

Look at houses now vs houses from 200 years ago. Modern house are much more advanced and complex. Automation such as a bricklaying machine would allow these 2 or 3 other guys to do something else that would support further complexity and advancement in house building, or anything else for that matter, just as automation doesn't cause loss of jobs in programming.

Re: Where are the robotic bricklayers?

#335

Post by NoPicklez » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:19 AM UTC

xyproto wrote: post #302

XenophileJKO wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone that has worked digging ditches and carrying shingles up a ladder all day. I respectfully disagree. They are not remotely comparabe.

One doesn't exclude the other. All types of work-induced health problems are possible.

Exactly

Re: Where are the robotic bricklayers?

#336

Post by flemhans » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:20 AM UTC

krapp wrote: post #137

dragonsky67 wrote: post #130

The question I would have around automated building construction is "why use bricks?". Bricks are great for humans to build with, they are just the right size and weight for the human hand to manipulate and place. They are not optimised for machine manipulation. I would guess that if you wanted to automate construction you would start by making things like walls on an automated production line, then ship the largest…

>The problem seems to be people have a emotional idea of what a dream house is, an idea that is firmly stuck in the red brick house of 1970's sitcoms. Your fully automated house-extrusion company isn't going to have many customers, especially after you explain to people why their ideal dream home is obsolete and that they should pay you for a plascrete tube to live in instead because the profit margins are better. Th…

Plasteel is even better.

Re: Where are the robotic bricklayers?

#337

Post by donavanm » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:22 AM UTC

eloisius wrote: post #298

octokatt wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d add to the list of why partial automation isn’t worth it: it’s more satisfying to build a brick wall than babysit a bricklaying machine. Doing the physical labor is difficult. My father was a bricklayer from ten to fifty, when he finally had to stop working. But he loved showing me the buildings he built. He helped build city government buildings, schools, libraries. The pride he felt, that he’d built something w…

My dad was a stair builder his whole career until finally becoming a freelance carpenter after getting laid off. Stairs, like bricks, are probably another implement that us techies use daily with absolutely no appreciation for complexity and skill involved. Spiral staircases are an incredible work of craftsmanship, or at least they were. I used to go to the shop with my dad when I was a kid. They would rig up these b…

> They'd rather just cargo cult an ugly McMansion that was produced at the lowest cost possible?

Yes, very much. That's how a lot of trends and styles move "down market." The new consumers want teh appearance of what they see as wealthy/elite/etc. But they frequently dont understand, appreciate, or recognise, what actually goes in to the goods they're trying to copy. You'll see this everywhere from houses to clothes.

Re: Where are the robotic bricklayers?

#338

Post by cudgy » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:22 AM UTC

endymi0n wrote: post #304

mr_toad wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But brick laying is all about looks. I’ve seen stores with moulded facades designed to look like bricks that are attached to reinforced concrete.

From what I'm understanding the hard part of doing that stuff concrete is curation time. There's a lot of projects trying the "easy" route and effectively do additive 3D printing with concrete instead of glue. Conversely, they have the same problems... they look pretty ugly: https://www.realestate.com.au/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/0... Doing it "properly" means building proper moulding, rebar, vibration casting all…

Paint or stucco would be a big improvement to the aesthetics of the primary exterior surfaces that house … and changing the hideous orange puke trim color.

Re: Where are the robotic bricklayers?

#339

Post by simion314 » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:23 AM UTC

jiggawatts wrote: post #163

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #7

We had an "automated" pothole filler, in my town. When they purchased it, there was a bunch of hooplah. They had a news crew, in front of my house, showing it off. It spritzed asphalt into the pothole, tamped it down, then went on to the next one. All automatic! There was a driver, but he looked really bored. Months later, I have only seen one (probably the same one they demoed in front of my house). It was clearly d…

> tamping it down manually. In other words, the problem was that the machine worked perfectly, and would have resulted in a bunch of union job losses. Hence, it was "no good" and had to go.

> a typical SV anti-union response

if we do such low level comments then let me speculate it was not the union at fault but the developers, they used node.js and 1000 buggy and bad coded libraries.

Re: Where are the robotic bricklayers?

#340

Post by cseleborg » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:25 AM UTC

cudgy wrote: post #323

eloisius wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My dad was a stair builder his whole career until finally becoming a freelance carpenter after getting laid off. Stairs, like bricks, are probably another implement that us techies use daily with absolutely no appreciation for complexity and skill involved. Spiral staircases are an incredible work of craftsmanship, or at least they were. I used to go to the shop with my dad when I was a kid. They would rig up these b…

Nice story. Tech is not always an improvement. In fact, the more years I live, the less enamored with tech I’ve become due to many examples like this.

Couldn't agree more. The smartphone enabled a few very unique scenarios, like car sharing, and made everything else worse. It didn't use to be the case that you had to enter a PIN code, resist distraction from half a dozen notifications and hope you had got the power management right the night before when you wanted to read the morning news, but now that's the norm, just to give one example.