Where are the robotic bricklayers? • Hacker News Board

Re: Where are the robotic bricklayers?

#201

Post by alfalfasprout » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 2:02 AM UTC

egh wrote: post #28

The great contempt that computer people have for the skills that every human brings to the jobs that the do is always on display here. We haven't automated driving; we haven't automated picking tomatoes; we haven't automated bricklaying; we can't automate cooking a fucking hamburger. But they are completely convinced that it's just around the corner, because they are full of contempt for the skill and intelligence of…

It's funny that the other comments here prove your point, egh.

They miss that the contempt is not directed at those doing the work but instead directed at the skills-- this is evidenced by how they tend to trivialize the skills that are trying to be automated.

This is especially true when looking at the spectrum of quality of human work for a given field. Take, for example, masonry. There is simple bricklaying for the front of the house. Then there is intricate stonemasonry that requires a lot of careful planning, know-how, and knowledge of historical techniques.

There is machining a piece of metal in a simple way. Then there is intricate hand-finishing of that metal at the other extreme.

I suspect that over time we will see the less artisan, less "skillful" aspects of manual work be replaced but that fine craftsmanship won't really disappear. The more you learn about what goes into making certain things by hand the more you appreciate how foolish it is to claim that it can all be automated easily.

Re: Where are the robotic bricklayers?

#202

Post by alfalfasprout » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 2:05 AM UTC

exabrial wrote: post #199

If you think bricklaying is a simple task, you've probably never laid bricks, or likely ever worked a construction job. There is _a lot_ that goes into laying a brick wall. From excavation, base compaction, material choice, mortar composition and viscosity, wall type, overlap patterns, leveling, overhang patterns, set time, and much more. Using an incorrect overhang pattern for instance can allow water drops to fall…

there's another comment to this effect and it's spot-on. I suspect a lot of the people quick to work on these automation projects don't fully understand the complexity behind it. Just reading the descriptions of the early and later machines shows the comical oversimplification of laying bricks.

Re: Where are the robotic bricklayers?

#203

Post by NoPicklez » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 2:06 AM UTC

dukeofdoom wrote: post #195

egh wrote: post #28

The great contempt that computer people have for the skills that every human brings to the jobs that the do is always on display here. We haven't automated driving; we haven't automated picking tomatoes; we haven't automated bricklaying; we can't automate cooking a fucking hamburger. But they are completely convinced that it's just around the corner, because they are full of contempt for the skill and intelligence of…

These jobs are usually slow torture for humans to do. Do them long enough, and your body will break under the sun or you will look like a prune, get back pain or a hump and possibly skin cancer. Let the robots do them as soon as possible.

And sitting in an office chair in front of a computer all day doesn't bring its own health problems? Weight gain due to limited daily movement, forward posture due to sitting and looking forward all day, RSI due to typing and mouse movement.

Re: Where are the robotic bricklayers?

#204

Post by Clewza313 » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 2:08 AM UTC

brianwawok wrote: post #114

robotresearcher wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet, almost no houses at all are 3D printed. People are very good at bricklaying, and are paid a reasonable rate by the hour. No one has made a machine that can beat that feature set. edit: more great features of human brickies that robots are terrible at: very small working volume; very small and agile footprint; safe for other humans to work near; half-day built-in power supply.

Most people don’t buy brick houses. They buy vinyl siding which is 1/5 the cost of bricks and bricklaying.

In the US, perhaps, but brick construction still predominates in many countries including much of Africa, the Middle East and India. Not coincidentally, all three also have limited supplies of timber.

Re: Where are the robotic bricklayers?

#205

Post by thrwyoilarticle » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 2:09 AM UTC

version_five wrote: post #90

mavhc wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not destroying your body lifting heavy weights for 50 years seems like something people might like. We automated looking after the house after it's been built, no need for people scrubbing floors and clothes any more, freed up 40% of the workforce. My partially automated vacuum cleaner, clothes washer, dish washer, food cooker, water heater, all work well.

Most construction relies on fit young men to do the "heavy lifting". It would be interesting to see how the dynamics changesd if technology moved the needle on the brawn->brain scale, so that the core value prop of a construction worker was not their fitness. I'm not convinced it would be for the better. Also just want to add that working in a physical job for 50 years is much better for your body than sitting at a d…

>Also just want to add that working in a physical job for 50 years is much better for your body than sitting at a desk for 50 years.

Not for my carpet-fitting granddad. And it's not like he has a private pension. Desk job damage can mostly be undone by proper exercise: it takes surgery to fix knees.

Re: Where are the robotic bricklayers?

#206

Post by tclancy » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 2:10 AM UTC

gilbetron wrote: post #184

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Code has been getting automated since basically day one of programming. The funny thing about automation in programming - it has always opened up more doors - and led to more employment in programming. We are so far from anything that resembles real automated coding - that coding automation should continue to be celebrated by engineers for a long time. GitHub Co-Pilot and VS Code aren't going to replace you - they're…

> Code has been getting automated since basically day one of programming. Comments like these make me wonder if you actually code. Code is automation, that's what it does. You don't write the same code twice. Ever.

As long as you never learn a second language.

Re: Where are the robotic bricklayers?

#207

Post by zamalek » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 2:13 AM UTC

egh wrote: post #28

The great contempt that computer people have for the skills that every human brings to the jobs that the do is always on display here. We haven't automated driving; we haven't automated picking tomatoes; we haven't automated bricklaying; we can't automate cooking a fucking hamburger. But they are completely convinced that it's just around the corner, because they are full of contempt for the skill and intelligence of…

> The great contempt that computer people have for the skills that every human brings to the jobs that the do is always on display here.

Agreed. My mother was involved in my local city theatre, and always told us kids that "there would be no show without someone to lift the curtains." These people had their cameo in every finale. That has always stuck with me.

Ever wondered what would happen if there wasn't someone flipping burgers to satisfy your 2AM craving? You, no matter your riches or power or fame, would have to do it yourself.

The most innovative thing you could do is shut the fuck up and start listening. Instead of trying to replace the bricklayer with robotics, how about asking them how robotics could help them? They are the SMEs, they do a job considered easy to automate daily (and that job isn't easy to automate). They can tell you how they are wasting time on inefficiencies.

The job of technology is to allow the human to stop worrying about the rote. It is not to replace the human, or to solve imaginary problems. That's when problems arise: Facebook, racist/sexist AI, etc.

Re: Where are the robotic bricklayers?

#208

Post by sharkweek » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 2:14 AM UTC

NoPicklez wrote: post #203

dukeofdoom wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These jobs are usually slow torture for humans to do. Do them long enough, and your body will break under the sun or you will look like a prune, get back pain or a hump and possibly skin cancer. Let the robots do them as soon as possible.

And sitting in an office chair in front of a computer all day doesn't bring its own health problems? Weight gain due to limited daily movement, forward posture due to sitting and looking forward all day, RSI due to typing and mouse movement.

A question for the crowd, then: what is the “best” job for the human body?

Because sitting at a desk all day for me definitely isn’t it.

Re: Where are the robotic bricklayers?

#209

Post by jjeaff » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 2:15 AM UTC

gilbetron wrote: post #184

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Code has been getting automated since basically day one of programming. The funny thing about automation in programming - it has always opened up more doors - and led to more employment in programming. We are so far from anything that resembles real automated coding - that coding automation should continue to be celebrated by engineers for a long time. GitHub Co-Pilot and VS Code aren't going to replace you - they're…

> Code has been getting automated since basically day one of programming. Comments like these make me wonder if you actually code. Code is automation, that's what it does. You don't write the same code twice. Ever.

Frameworks like react are a type of automation of coding. Any framework. Or any higher level language. Anything that isn't just entering ones and zeroes is already a level of automation in coding.

Re: Where are the robotic bricklayers?

#210

Post by NoPicklez » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 2:16 AM UTC

makeitdouble wrote: post #139

version_five wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most construction relies on fit young men to do the "heavy lifting". It would be interesting to see how the dynamics changesd if technology moved the needle on the brawn->brain scale, so that the core value prop of a construction worker was not their fitness. I'm not convinced it would be for the better. Also just want to add that working in a physical job for 50 years is much better for your body than sitting at a d…

> physical job for 50 years I think you’re envisioning jobs with high skill requirements or low demand, or a mix of both. Like landscaper for the town, or garbage truck operator. Otherwise you’ll generally be met with a combination of RSI, hazardous product ingestion (dust, paint fumes, exhaust…), allergies, injuries, or sheer overwork. Working a low wage low level physical job is more often than not closer to Amazon…

I just want to iterate that working an office job also carries with it its own health problems. Low physical activity from sitting all day, forward posture from sitting all day, RSI from typing and mouse movement, eye problems, overwork (Arguably more than labor jobs).