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Why don't tech companies pay their engineers to stay?

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Re: Why don't tech companies pay their engineers to stay?

#371
Companies consider any employee who is not selling (not bringing in dough) and who is not an exec - a liability.

HR's exists to keep minimizing liabilities - maintaining set of excuses to enforce minimal possible pays, ensuring employees have little or no say over important matters, prioritizing diversity over talent and painting a good face over all the necessary corp BS to maximize profits.

Engineers are necessary evil that "cost lots of money but doesn't bring any revenues". This of course an idiotic point of view but that's how execs are thinking.

Re: Why don't tech companies pay their engineers to stay?

#372

Companies consider any employee who is not selling (not bringing in dough) and who is not an exec - a liability. HR's exists to keep minimizing liabilities - maintaining set of excuses to enforce minimal possible pays, ensuring employees have little or no say over important matters, prioritizing diversity over talent and painting a good face over all the necessary corp BS to maximize profits. Engineers are necessary…

What world are you living in? Engineers are treated like royalty at almost every good tech company. Heck, most of the founders are engineers by trade.

Re: Why don't tech companies pay their engineers to stay?

#373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what this misses, which I saw in another comment, is the take here is an individual one. If someone leaves and gets a 20% raise, while it may be an isolated incident, I believe it's more often than not an example where the market rate has shifted up and a company is slow to catch on. While you may find someone new who's willing to accept $x instead of $1.2x, there is likely a large difference between the pers…

This was a growing company making an active effort to pay market rate - I realize this doesn't apply to everywhere. At the point where the market rate has shifted that much and my employer hasn't caught on, I'm out the door myself. ;) "Maybe the replacements suck in comparison" is certainly something we would've noticed - happily, it wasn't the case. But we were hiring basically constantly, since there was no team th…

Thanks for the response and glad to hear the new hires have been good!

Admittedly I'm a little burned on this issue. My previous (and first job) was severely underpaying me and all my coworkers. I stayed there for 3 years, wanted to leave after 1.5/2, put a pause on it when covid hit, and finally completed the move earlier this year just around my 3 year mark.

Leaving got me an 80% raise in total compensation and 4 other people on my team/org all left with at least a 50% bump.

All within a few weeks of each other too o.O!

It's such an interesting dynamic and market today and so fascinating to hear about people's experiences as they jump around. Thanks for sharing your perspective!

Re: Why don't tech companies pay their engineers to stay?

#374

Companies consider any employee who is not selling (not bringing in dough) and who is not an exec - a liability. HR's exists to keep minimizing liabilities - maintaining set of excuses to enforce minimal possible pays, ensuring employees have little or no say over important matters, prioritizing diversity over talent and painting a good face over all the necessary corp BS to maximize profits. Engineers are necessary…

What world are you living in? Engineers are treated like royalty at almost every good tech company. Heck, most of the founders are engineers by trade.

Keyword is: "good" (tech company). Majority are not.

The moment engineer became founder - tables are turned.

Re: Why don't tech companies pay their engineers to stay?

#375
post #11

To chime in with my own anecdotal opinion that is likely to anger some people... in my experience most developers do their best work after about 6-8 months of starting a job at a new company, and that comes to an end after about 24-36 months of working at the same company. After that the vast majority of people just stagnate, get complacent, the job stops being interesting to them and they move on. After observing th…

I find the biggest problem I have is that as time goes on too many people come to recognize me as a person who can likely solve their problem. Somewhat ironically this makes it more difficult to accomplish things over time because I'm constantly getting pulled into things to give my $0.02.

I fully recognize that some of this is my fault and possibly poor boundaries and time management. But it's easier to just leave every few years and also more lucrative. So there's zero incentive for me to stop this from happening.

Re: Why don't tech companies pay their engineers to stay?

#376

I literally had this conversation with my boss yesterday, and I was a bit floored that they don't quite "get" it. I'm the lead dev at a small co that does work, mostly custom WordPress, for gov / edu / SMB (mostly NGO or trade groups). I'm the senior technical staff... there's a junior dev and a "project manager who codes but doesn't read log files". I've been working with this company for 7 years and never gotten a…

To be brutally honest, just go get another job with higher pay, if you can. It's not your company.

Re: Why don't tech companies pay their engineers to stay?

#377
post #11

To chime in with my own anecdotal opinion that is likely to anger some people... in my experience most developers do their best work after about 6-8 months of starting a job at a new company, and that comes to an end after about 24-36 months of working at the same company. After that the vast majority of people just stagnate, get complacent, the job stops being interesting to them and they move on. After observing th…

> “most developers do their best work after about 6-8 months of starting a job at a new company, and that comes to an end after about 24-36 months of working at the same company”

From what I’ve observed, the reason for this is not that people intrinsically lose the motivation to do great work.

Rather, often they realize that the company’s ability to reward their performance doesn’t scale with their effort.

Company’s have to delicately balance incentivizing performance of newer employees vs. risking alienating older employees who probably have a lower base rate but are key to the company’s daily operation.

The schelling point eventually settles to an environment where people surge for a few months and coast while doing the minimum amount of work.

This is especially true in a smaller company where cash flow may be constrained. Though the smaller companies often have more flexibility to offer non-monetary rewards like an overblown title or growth opportunities.

The “optimal” strategy for the company is to overpromise rewards to new hires to get them to do most of the challenging work while doling out minor incentives when needed once employees are indoctrinated and somewhat burnt out.

Re: Why don't tech companies pay their engineers to stay?

#378
> then for whatever reason find that it’s much easier to get recognition for that growth outside that company.

It is interesting that 99% opinion out there between engineers community is always the same. For you to get a better pay rise / career leap, you have to move company. I'm not sure why this is always the case, I guess it is different for those who joined startup like Netflix, Stripe, etc before they go viral.

Actually at this point because I'm still young, I'm sure I can do career jump many times for the next decade. But yeah, at one point having 1 company that appreciate you with good compensation is kind of like the end goal when I'm pretty old and don't have the energy to keep moving

Re: Why don't tech companies pay their engineers to stay?

#380
post #327

There are several factors: 1. Organizations will often see bumping up an employee's pay to match another offer as some variant of extortion and it's they view this as disloyal. Never mind that the other offer clearly shows they're now below market. I didn't say it makes sense; 2. There is friction in changing jobs and companies and people will generally have a threshold for making that jump (eg they won't switch for…

This is a great list, to elaborate on #4, I think there's another factor at play related to the social implications of Dunning Kruger. To be specific: ones sense of ones own productivity and value to the company is not very well correlated to actual performance.

For new hires, management doesn't what their value will be, so it really comes down to market rates and negotiation based on the limited signal. If you make a bad hire you can chalk it to classic market-for-lemons problem and you deal with it via pip or letting them go.

However once someone is established, their performance is more or less well-understood by their peers. It's at this point that the disconnect between ones own perceived performance and the broader perception becomes deadly, because peers talk, and if one of them gets a fat raise and the other doesn't then it becomes a whole can of worms. The merit of the situation will get lost in the individual perceptions and entitlements which is likely to result in an overall morale hit one way or another. Sure this can happen with new hires, but it's more easily explainable, especially in the current climate where market rate has shifted a lot and so you literally won't be able to hire if you don't play the game.

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