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Where are the robotic bricklayers?

constructionphysics.substack.com

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Re: Where are the robotic bricklayers?

#71

Post by Kye »

WillPostForFood wrote: post #69
avgDev wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cost of lumber, cost of land, cost of equipment, cost of permits, cost of inspections. It really isn't a box for $300k. You can buy a mobile home for what $60k? Permit process isn't broken.....this is a view often held by incompetent contractors. I have performed various jobs like building retaining walls, bathrooms, electrical, decks and never had an issue as long as my work was up to code. Permits can protect a hom…

>and never had an issue as long as my work was up to code Permits cost tens of thousands of dollars, and months of processing in my area. They’re happy to sign off at the end after they’ve extracted the maximum they can from you.

There are likely some valuable skills and services that go into that permit price. I doubt it's pure grift.

Re: Where are the robotic bricklayers?

#72

Post by version_five »

pvorb wrote: post #59
version_five wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you're saying resonates for so many new products. I find that most time or labor saving ideas save time on something that is not actually the problem, or address a charicature of the actual workflow. I dont think it means we should give up and stop trying, rather that its critical to test with real users IMO before trying to sign deals on a product that doesn't make sense.

And sometimes the things that are automated were the only thing that was pleasant. It's not true for laying bricks because the heavy lifting makes it unpleasant.

I have never laid brick but I've done a lot of shingled roofs. The "fun" part of shingling is long stretches of full sheets in the middle of the roof. This goes quickly and is rewarding. The less fun, and what occupies the time, is where there is a chimney or a valley or a dormer or some other feature that you need to figure out and cut some flashing for, and custom fit each shingle that butts up against the feature, seal with tar sometimes, etc.

I picture a lot of automated solutions focusing on the "in the field" part where the work is easy and rewarding, and glossing over the manual intervention and craftsmanship that is needed for all the nonstandard bits. I don't know about bricklaying though I imagine it has similar characteristics, where a square windowless wall goes very fast, and could be pleasant work, and all the time is spent dealing with windows and the frame not being level and other edge cases.

Re: Where are the robotic bricklayers?

#73

Post by lazide »

WillPostForFood wrote: post #69
avgDev wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cost of lumber, cost of land, cost of equipment, cost of permits, cost of inspections. It really isn't a box for $300k. You can buy a mobile home for what $60k? Permit process isn't broken.....this is a view often held by incompetent contractors. I have performed various jobs like building retaining walls, bathrooms, electrical, decks and never had an issue as long as my work was up to code. Permits can protect a hom…

>and never had an issue as long as my work was up to code Permits cost tens of thousands of dollars, and months of processing in my area. They’re happy to sign off at the end after they’ve extracted the maximum they can from you.

And that is assuming you can get permits - which in many jurisdictions can take years to figure out, and multiple major changes.

The intent in many jurisdictions is to tarpit change as much as possible and it shows.

It isn't the permits themselves which are usually the problem.

Re: Where are the robotic bricklayers?

#74

Post by dragontamer »

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #34
egh wrote: post #28

The great contempt that computer people have for the skills that every human brings to the jobs that the do is always on display here. We haven't automated driving; we haven't automated picking tomatoes; we haven't automated bricklaying; we can't automate cooking a fucking hamburger. But they are completely convinced that it's just around the corner, because they are full of contempt for the skill and intelligence of…

I don't have contempt for the skills; I have great respect for the skills. I have contempt for the prices of things. If construction costs are cheaper than ever (are they really?) why can't I buy a box to live in without spending $300,000? Why is the permits process nationally broken? And despite being skilled, that doesn't mean they're informed: why do contractors not know what they're supposed to do? Why do the peo…

> why can't I buy a box to live in without spending $300,000?

Manufactured homes are like $20,000. The plot of land that they go on however, is subject to political rules. Turns out that people don't like cheap housing to be available, because it attracts the underclass.

Its important to remember that housing is mostly a solved problem. The politics of housing are not solved however: too much "progress" (aka: higher prices) and people complain about gentrification.

Bringing down the cost of housing is akin to inviting gangs and thieves into your neighborhood. Everyone wants to support the poor and needy, but just not in their backyard.

Its very difficult to convince a typical city / town / county to support the development of a new trailer park. That's just how politics are today. Politicians are screwed if prices go up. Politicians are screwed if prices go down. Politicians are screwed if prices remain the same.

-------------

Its not very difficult to physically build any kind of "underclass" home. Trailer parks, low-income housing / mixed-income housing (be it a high-rise or low-cost apartment/condo complex), etc. etc. But its very, very difficult to convince local board members to zone an area for that kind of home.

Re: Where are the robotic bricklayers?

#75

Post by deltarholamda »

Someone wrote: post #45
egh wrote: post #28

The great contempt that computer people have for the skills that every human brings to the jobs that the do is always on display here. We haven't automated driving; we haven't automated picking tomatoes; we haven't automated bricklaying; we can't automate cooking a fucking hamburger. But they are completely convinced that it's just around the corner, because they are full of contempt for the skill and intelligence of…

> we haven't automated picking tomatoes I wouldn’t know whether their claims hold water, but http://www.automatorobotics.com/autonomous-single-tomato-har... : A robot that can reliably detect ripe tomatoes and harvest them with consistent quality at a rate of 10-12 tomatoes per minute. […] reducing the harvest costs by 50% (The videos give me the impression that “10-12 tomatoes per minute” is best-case)

I can see an automated tomato picker working well for tomato varieties that are uniform and grow on largely uniform plants. But those tomatoes are bland.

Heirloom tomatoes look like a topology project gone horribly wrong, and the colors aren't found in any Pantone catalog. They are also the most delicious.

There's definitely a place for both. We have to get ketchup ingredients from somewhere, and gourmands will always want the ugly heirlooms.

Re: Where are the robotic bricklayers?

#76

Post by cgrealy »

egh wrote: post #28

The great contempt that computer people have for the skills that every human brings to the jobs that the do is always on display here. We haven't automated driving; we haven't automated picking tomatoes; we haven't automated bricklaying; we can't automate cooking a fucking hamburger. But they are completely convinced that it's just around the corner, because they are full of contempt for the skill and intelligence of…

> We haven't automated driving

Yeah, we pretty much have... it just hasn't been widely adopted yet. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjztvddhZmI

And honestly, from a business perspective, most people really don't care about the skills ordinary people have.

Look at the wine industry for example. Top shelf wine is hand-picked, for exactly the reasons you outline, and some people are willing to pay top dollar for that end product.

But the vast majority of grapes are harvested by very simple machines, because scale and profit, and most people just want a $10 bottle of decent-ish wine.

We absolutely can automate cooking a fucking hamburger, and as soon as it's cheaper than the cheapest labour, McDonald's, Burger King, etc, WILL automate cooking a fucking hamburger.

Will it be as good as a "hand made" burger? Maybe.. maybe not?

Will the people paying a few bucks for a burger care? Nope.

This isn't an issue with "computer people"... this is an issue with economics.

Re: Where are the robotic bricklayers?

#77

Post by minikites »

coldacid wrote: post #57
mavhc wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not destroying your body lifting heavy weights for 50 years seems like something people might like. We automated looking after the house after it's been built, no need for people scrubbing floors and clothes any more, freed up 40% of the workforce. My partially automated vacuum cleaner, clothes washer, dish washer, food cooker, water heater, all work well.

>Not destroying your body lifting heavy weights for 50 years seems like something people might like. And that's why the exoskeleton system mentioned in passing in the article is more popular with construction labourers than any of these robots.

Better tools amplify human skills instead of attempting to replace them.

Re: Where are the robotic bricklayers?

#78

Post by paxys »

egh wrote: post #28

The great contempt that computer people have for the skills that every human brings to the jobs that the do is always on display here. We haven't automated driving; we haven't automated picking tomatoes; we haven't automated bricklaying; we can't automate cooking a fucking hamburger. But they are completely convinced that it's just around the corner, because they are full of contempt for the skill and intelligence of…

And yet the list of jobs that have been successfully automated over the decades is considerably longer. Everything you mentioned will eventually be conquered as well (driving, farming and cooking are probably the worst examples you could have used – we are well on our way to automating all of them).

Re: Where are the robotic bricklayers?

#79

Post by Grakel »

colordrops wrote: post #62
egh wrote: post #28

The great contempt that computer people have for the skills that every human brings to the jobs that the do is always on display here. We haven't automated driving; we haven't automated picking tomatoes; we haven't automated bricklaying; we can't automate cooking a fucking hamburger. But they are completely convinced that it's just around the corner, because they are full of contempt for the skill and intelligence of…

Having respect for the skills of a worker and also believing that they are possible to automate are not mutually exclusive. It's no different from people saying the same thing about chess and chess players, or go and go players, before the problem was solved. And it's not just blue collar workers that are a target of this idea. We are already starting to see automated programming moving out of the research lab and in…

Programming will be automated long before brick laying. We can barely print a document with confidence.

Re: Where are the robotic bricklayers?

#80

Post by PragmaticPulp »

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #34
egh wrote: post #28

The great contempt that computer people have for the skills that every human brings to the jobs that the do is always on display here. We haven't automated driving; we haven't automated picking tomatoes; we haven't automated bricklaying; we can't automate cooking a fucking hamburger. But they are completely convinced that it's just around the corner, because they are full of contempt for the skill and intelligence of…

I don't have contempt for the skills; I have great respect for the skills. I have contempt for the prices of things. If construction costs are cheaper than ever (are they really?) why can't I buy a box to live in without spending $300,000? Why is the permits process nationally broken? And despite being skilled, that doesn't mean they're informed: why do contractors not know what they're supposed to do? Why do the peo…

> If construction costs are cheaper than ever (are they really?) why can't I buy a box to live in without spending $300,000?

They're not cheaper than ever. Materials are expensive and in short supply. Labor is expensive because demand is high and few people want to do manual construction work.

But you're not literally buying just a structure. You have to buy a property for the house. In many locations, the valuation of the land a house sits on is higher than the value of the structure itself. My house could burn to the ground and my property would lose less than half its value, and I'm not even in a very high cost of living area.

You can buy a house for $300,000 if you're not picky about where it is. One of my family members had a new construction house built in the 2500 sq. ft. range for under $300,000 recently. The trick was that they live in a small town where property can be purchased for around $10K.

> See also: trying to renovate or buy a home in Arizona.

A quick search on Zillow shows over 1,500 listings for freestanding single family homes (not apartments, condos, townhomes, or other properties) for $300,000 or less. Many of them are even recently renovated, have 2-car garages, and frankly look quite nice.

Usually when someone is talking about starter houses being exorbitantly expensive, they're actually referring to the property being expensive. Loosen your requirements for location and it becomes much easier to find affordable housing. In most states you don't even need to move that far out of city centers. There are hundreds of properties within Phoenix and Tuscon that are $300K or less.

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