Live data from Hacker News

First Nokia, Now RIM: The Mighty Are Falling

wired.com

31–40 of 53 posts

Re: First Nokia, Now RIM: The Mighty Are Falling

#31

Their problem is they make phones and no one wants phones, they want computers.

That was exactly Nokia's problem, they tried to cram whole computer in a phone. They even called their smartphones 'multimedia computers' and primarily targeted them for geeks. They never had a real idea why smartphones are useful. That strategy led them to huge amounts of code bloat and features without usability and made the development of updates horribly slow.

Re: First Nokia, Now RIM: The Mighty Are Falling

#32
post #31

Their problem is they make phones and no one wants phones, they want computers.

That was exactly Nokia's problem, they tried to cram whole computer in a phone. They even called their smartphones 'multimedia computers' and primarily targeted them for geeks. They never had a real idea why smartphones are useful. That strategy led them to huge amounts of code bloat and features without usability and made the development of updates horribly slow.

I think that Nokia's problem was they tried to redesign their software stack 3-4 times, never waiting long enough to get a mature enough product with real feedback before ripping things up and starting again. The worst case was the latest switch to WP7, especially after looking at the first (and maybe last) Meego phone release. It's like trying to build a house, getting the framing and walls up and right after you paint it you decide to go to a completely different foundation.

Re: First Nokia, Now RIM: The Mighty Are Falling

#33
post #8

I am not fully versed in the notion of innovative disruption, but it seems pretty obvious that a Clay Christensen-esque Innovator's Dilemma disruption is what's going on here: somebody had a decent product, is first to market, but doesn't have a clear enough vision to see how to stay on top and stay innovative and gets blindsided by unexpected (read Apple + Android) competitors. I wonder how closely the non-cliff not…

The term is 'disruptive innovation'. It's an often misunderstood concept - the key point is that not all innovation is disruptive. The defining feature of disruptive innovations is that they are initially worse than the technology they displace, but as they are significantly cheaper they allow the tech to reach new markets. Since the iPhone was a high-end product, it can't be called disruptive.

Re: First Nokia, Now RIM: The Mighty Are Falling

#34
post #3

I'm a little sad for RIM and would like to support a Canadian company but in the end they just aren't able to adapt. I don't think they ever will unless there is a management change. Seriously a tablet that can't receive email Nativity? That's what they were know for yet they can't use there strength right. QNX is a decent system, open it up, let others use it, in the end they won't be able to stop the tsunami of app…

I don't have the deisre to support a Canadian company simply because they're Canadian, but I'm with you on the rest of it. When I heard RIM bought QNX I was ready for a game changer from them, but alas... too little too late. Perhaps it never could have worked; maybe Google with buy the QNX part of RIM and do something with it with respect to Android. I'd like to see it shine someday.

Re: First Nokia, Now RIM: The Mighty Are Falling

#35

I don't think I've ever seen a company cut employees en masse like this truly help a company come from behind to regain their former status. It sends so many wrong messages. If those 10% of your company aren't worthwhile, why were they hired and employed in the first place? If management can afford to cut staff by 10%, the C and VP level management should be fired. Start by cutting at the top, not at the bottom. Cutt…

From one of my friends who worked at RIM on a co-op job less than a year ago: "I definitely saw a lot of redundant jobs and am not surprised they're cutting this many".

They were hiring anyone and everyone they could for a while there, so I think this is a good move. Keep the best employees are double down on them.

Re: First Nokia, Now RIM: The Mighty Are Falling

#36
Well, that's what a functioning market where there is competition does. Allow people to pick what they want, and it so happens that what people now want aren't BlackBerries. Both Apple and Google should remember that -- their positions aren't set in stone and to maintain them in the long term they need to avoid resting on their laurels.

Re: First Nokia, Now RIM: The Mighty Are Falling

#37
post #33
post #8

I am not fully versed in the notion of innovative disruption, but it seems pretty obvious that a Clay Christensen-esque Innovator's Dilemma disruption is what's going on here: somebody had a decent product, is first to market, but doesn't have a clear enough vision to see how to stay on top and stay innovative and gets blindsided by unexpected (read Apple + Android) competitors. I wonder how closely the non-cliff not…

The term is 'disruptive innovation'. It's an often misunderstood concept - the key point is that not all innovation is disruptive. The defining feature of disruptive innovations is that they are initially worse than the technology they displace, but as they are significantly cheaper they allow the tech to reach new markets. Since the iPhone was a high-end product, it can't be called disruptive.

"Since the iPhone was a high-end product, it can't be called disruptive."

Do you have a suggestion of what it should be called, then? Sounds disruptive to me.

Re: First Nokia, Now RIM: The Mighty Are Falling

#38
post #14

I'm not sure if it's related to their troubles, but their corporate structure has always seemed odd to me. Starting with the whole "co-CEO" role, which seems like an experiment that hasn't quite panned out.

Technically, Google has almost had that for a while with Larry and Sergey, and then the Trifecta with Eric. Not quite the same, though, obviously...

Re: First Nokia, Now RIM: The Mighty Are Falling

#39

To me, they are both victims of a paradigm shift. The only thing that saddens me is that their employees will pay the price for their lack of vision.

as a former multi-year employee of a formerly glorious company that fell victim of its self-denial to recognize a paradigm shift i can say that employees can blame only themselves.

Yeah, I agree. The parent post makes it sound like there is some other force in a company that can be blamed other than the employees. I suppose someone might say "management", but to me it's all the same.

Re: First Nokia, Now RIM: The Mighty Are Falling

#40
post #17

QNX ? What for ? I think RIM should learn from Nokia's mistake and switch to Android soon as possible. This is the only way to survive for them.

Wow, CEO of the year for you sir. If things would be as easy as that, flip to Android and compete with the rest... to the bottom. How would you differentiate yourself vs HTC, Motorola, etc? What if the Chinese android handsets comes up with cheap mobile phones similar to BB hardware interface (the golden keyboard, you know that BB users love BB because of the keyboard). Switching to Android makes RIM an average compa…

Samsung in on pace to become the #1 seller of phones in the world and the #1 seller of smartphones in the world. I don't have access to their numbers since they're a private company, but from what they report their revenue and profits dwarf that of RIM.
Post reply on HN