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Tesla CEO berated employees, investors and tried to get rid of safety measures

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Re: Tesla CEO berated employees, investors and tried to get rid of safety measures

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the amount of ingratitude you have to see after changing the world. "You shouted at a person. You said the F word!" If I had to summarize the internet in one feeling, that would be jealousy

Ingratitude? How grateful am I supposed to be for the fact that they get some product here faster than competitors? I'll take a slightly slower world with fewer assholes, thank you very much. The world is still going to change without them.

You are not very representative of society

Tesla is worth 600 billion dollars. Means the world is very impatient to buy their cars actually.

Also, you don't get to decide how people behave and treat each other. The social equilibrium is such that you only get to decide on your behaviors.

Re: Tesla CEO berated employees, investors and tried to get rid of safety measures

#182
post #8

I've always found the reports of his behind the scenes behavior and its stark contrast with his public persona to be incredibly disturbing, because it paints a picture of someone with psychopathic tendencies. I suspect there's something really dark with him that originates in his childhood (suffered through horrific bullying and a hellishly awful father).

>because it paints a picture of someone with psychopathic tendencies. I'm so tired of this. The article making that claim about CEOs being psychopaths has been latched into in pop culture so hard and yet it's roundly thought of as, at best, an incredible overstep of applied psychiatry. Just because someone doesn't care about you doesn't mean they're incapable, they could just be a dick.

At what point does someone who is consistently a dick become a diagnosable sociopath?

Re: Tesla CEO berated employees, investors and tried to get rid of safety measures

#183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you short the stock?

No. Are you long the stock? Kind of an odd question to ask.

Yes I own some. I ask because you seem so sure that there are major problems at the company.

Re: Tesla CEO berated employees, investors and tried to get rid of safety measures

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Are you long the stock? Kind of an odd question to ask.

Yes I own some. I ask because you seem so sure that there are major problems at the company.

I'm mostly summarizing from the article. Of course, information could be wrong. But I recall the "Elon banging head" incident from years past being reported in the news, and being further elaborated in this article.

>> As he sputtered about the lack of danger from a slow-speed line, he began head-butting the front end of a car on the assembly line. “I don’t see how this could hurt me,” he said. “I want the cars to just keep moving.” A senior engineering manager tried to interject that it was designed as a safety measure. Musk screamed at him: “Get out!”

This is not the first time I've seen this reported.

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In any case, Elon's skill at pumping the stock price higher cannot be denied. I'd be a fool to short the stock against someone like that (A small investor such as myself would only get margin-called). I prefer an older, simpler investment style. I find companies I like, then I buy them. I see no reason to short stocks at all, plenty of opportunity in just buying what's good out there.

I'm sure these long-term issues will come home to roost somehow. But I don't know the timing of it. So no point shorting unless I knew exactly when it all collapses. A short thesis is not only "I think the company is in trouble", but also is about having confidence in the __timing__ of those troubles.

Ex: A great example is a hypothetical time-traveler who tells someone "Worldcom is cooking the books" in the early 1990s. Any trader who acted on that knowledge would have had their shorts blown out of the water by the 90s runup and tech bubble, and won't be "correct" until well over a decade later (long after many margin calls would have wiped out their position entirely). Its not enough to be correct about a stock when you're short. You have to be both correct about the timing AND direction.

Re: Tesla CEO berated employees, investors and tried to get rid of safety measures

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No. You're the one saying that. I disagree. Your first claim was that Musk is a bad engineer whose poor technical leadership verges on self-sabotage. I asked why, then, are his companies so successful? To which you responded that he is good at raising money, implying that his companies have succeeded primarily because he raised a lot of money for them. Since you previously criticized his technical leadership, the i…

> Your first claim was that Musk is a bad engineer whose poor technical leadership verges on self-sabotage. Did you read the article that this thread is under? All I said earlier was just a summary of the points made in the article. If you think the article is factually wrong, we can start with that if you like. What part of the article is incorrect in your opinion? (Alternatively: If you think I made a bad summary,…

If you don't want to take responsibility for your previous statement that Musk is incompetent at engineering, we don't really have anything to talk about. I will not deny that he is good at raising money, nor that Tesla might be overvalued, nor etcetera.

IMO, it was certainly not clear in your initial comment that "Musk is an incompetent engineer" (here paraphrased) was meant to be a paraphrasing of other sources and not your own stated opinion.

Re: Tesla CEO berated employees, investors and tried to get rid of safety measures

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your first claim was that Musk is a bad engineer whose poor technical leadership verges on self-sabotage. Did you read the article that this thread is under? All I said earlier was just a summary of the points made in the article. If you think the article is factually wrong, we can start with that if you like. What part of the article is incorrect in your opinion? (Alternatively: If you think I made a bad summary,…

If you don't want to take responsibility for your previous statement that Musk is incompetent at engineering, we don't really have anything to talk about. I will not deny that he is good at raising money, nor that Tesla might be overvalued, nor etcetera. IMO, it was certainly not clear in your initial comment that "Musk is an incompetent engineer" (here paraphrased) was meant to be a paraphrasing of other sources and…

> IMO, it was certainly not clear in your initial comment that "Musk is an incompetent engineer" (here paraphrased) was meant to be a paraphrasing of other sources and not your own stated opinion.

Fair. But I assure you it was made with respect to the information in the article.

I do admit that I happen to have heard this story before, years ago when it was first reported. But reading this long-form story here reminded me of that opinion of mine, and I do believe the proof is in this article as it stands. The additional details in this article (and maybe the book its trying to sell) don't give me much confidence in Elon's engineering skill at all.

Re: Tesla CEO berated employees, investors and tried to get rid of safety measures

#187
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to be callous to be a psycopath. And you don't need to be a psycopath to be callous. If you think someone is an a-hole, call the person an a-hole. Please leave diagnostics for professionals. Musk said he is in the asperger spectrum. Among other things, it generally makes you not care what other think about you. And may lead to behaviour that is "acted" because all social interactions may be a difficult…

> Musk said he is in the asperger spectrum. Among other things, it generally makes you not care what other think about you. And may lead to behaviour that is "acted" because all social interactions may be a difficult exercise. . Small point of contention- people with high-functioning autism (aspergers pre DSM-5) generally understand and care how they are perceived, but still have difficulty interacting in social spac…

>generally understand and care how they are perceived

Personally, I do care how I am percieved. I want to be a legitimately good person. However, we sometimes do things that make it look like we don't care what others think of us because it doesn't always occur to us that what we are doing isn't normal. Even when beforehand we think of what a normal and appropriate thing to do might be we could totally miss the mark and do something weird that gives the impression that we don't care.

Re: Tesla CEO berated employees, investors and tried to get rid of safety measures

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it was in DSM-IV. Are all of those people now cured?

No. But isn't it ironic for someone to complain about armchair psychologists and then start talking about a condition that's not even recognized anymore? DSM-5 replaced everything with autism spectrum disorder.

And to elaborate on this the explanation I read stated that with DSM-IV you had a bunch of specific disorders with their respective checklists of symptoms which didn't accurately reflect variations between individuals and the overlapping symptoms. (Since its a spectrum). This led to situations where people didn't check enough boxes to be eligible for certain treatments that might benefit them because they were associated with a slightly different diagnosis than the one they had.

Re: Tesla CEO berated employees, investors and tried to get rid of safety measures

#189
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've always found the reports of his behind the scenes behavior and its stark contrast with his public persona to be incredibly disturbing, because it paints a picture of someone with psychopathic tendencies. That is a reality distortion field. The Tesla CEO is good at that and it reflects on the deceptive advertisement of FSD and the actual reality of it being unfinished and still unsafe and it puts the lives of m…

What about the lives that have been saved? Do those not count? Just this week a drunk driver passed out and the Tesla safely slowed down to a stop. What if that guy was in an Audi and ran over a child while passed out?

If it were an Audi, I assume the adaptive cruise control with stop and go or the collision avoidance system would have brought it to a stop as well.

Re: Tesla CEO berated employees, investors and tried to get rid of safety measures

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't want to take responsibility for your previous statement that Musk is incompetent at engineering, we don't really have anything to talk about. I will not deny that he is good at raising money, nor that Tesla might be overvalued, nor etcetera. IMO, it was certainly not clear in your initial comment that "Musk is an incompetent engineer" (here paraphrased) was meant to be a paraphrasing of other sources and…

> IMO, it was certainly not clear in your initial comment that "Musk is an incompetent engineer" (here paraphrased) was meant to be a paraphrasing of other sources and not your own stated opinion. Fair. But I assure you it was made with respect to the information in the article. I do admit that I happen to have heard this story before, years ago when it was first reported. But reading this long-form story here remind…

For whatever reason, I've observed public opinion of Musk to be highly polarized. Some (very strange) people literally worship him, and others seem almost personally affronted by his existence and bend over backwards to ignore and/or explain away his obvious, somewhat unprecedented successes. Since to me they are rather obvious, I tend to take any one-dimensional criticism of his abilities as a technical leader with a grain or two of salt.

I would never want to work for him, but that's not quite the same question.

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