Why don't tech companies pay their engineers to stay? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why don't tech companies pay their engineers to stay?

#311

Post by ghaff » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 9:33 PM UTC

shados wrote: post #47

Many companies do pay for people to stay, but its debatable if its worth it. The last company I worked for gave me significant golden handcuffs. Probably 30-40% more than I could get elsewhere. They had a "cost of replacement player" policy, where they count the cost of hiring, sourcing, training over the years, etc, and come up with a number thats almost always way above market rate for people who have been around a…

Especially in Silicon Valley, there seems to be a lot of itchy feet in tech that leads people to changing jobs every 2 to 3 years because some people get bored easily and get the impression it's almost required. Historically it wasn't. And it still isn't in most industries and most places (including tech jobs elsewhere). The two larger places I've worked, 10+ year stints were, if maybe not the norm, extremely common. I've spent most of my career in three jobs +/- 10 years each.

Re: Why don't tech companies pay their engineers to stay?

#312

Post by yjftsjthsd-h » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 9:33 PM UTC

WJW wrote: post #150

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why can't someone make more then there boss, besides ego? I mean, maybe, but I've never seen anyone even propose a solution to ego so that's still a hard blocker.

"Why is X already solved, except for maybe reason Y" is a HN staple comment though. A few months I came across "Other than nuclear weapons regulations, is there any reason this can't work to fix ?".

...any chance you have a link, or even just what the article was about so I can search back for an excellent addition to my quotes file?

Re: Why don't tech companies pay their engineers to stay?

#313

Post by ghaff » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 9:35 PM UTC

Cederfjard wrote: post #129

shados wrote: post #47

Many companies do pay for people to stay, but its debatable if its worth it. The last company I worked for gave me significant golden handcuffs. Probably 30-40% more than I could get elsewhere. They had a "cost of replacement player" policy, where they count the cost of hiring, sourcing, training over the years, etc, and come up with a number thats almost always way above market rate for people who have been around a…

> The uncomfortable truth is that there's very significant demographic differences when it comes to folks who use the "I got an offer elsewhere, pay me more and Ill stay". What differences are those? I tend to think that it’s a bad idea anyway. Once you’ve done it, your employer will know that you’ve already thought about leaving, so much so that you’ve already completed an interview process and have gotten an offer.…

If it leads to not just more money but a significantly changed role, it can possibly work. Though arguably that conversation should have taken place earlier.

Re: Why don't tech companies pay their engineers to stay?

#314

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 9:37 PM UTC

pnutjam wrote: post #226

simonh wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure that’s fair, but I’ve been very fortunate to have worked reasonably or very well paid jobs most of my career. Those jobs also enabled me to develop valuable skills. I think it’s only fair I put in a good effort in return. Yes if business priorities change I could end up out the door, and that happened once, but no hard feelings. I quit all my other jobs anyway and there was nothing malicious either way. The clot…

What if my low effort is better then the other guys on my teams "good effort"? You're also selling yourself short. You paid for all that stuff. Your employer paid for the work you did, and probably took more whenever they could; through on-call, off hours work, etc... I try to comp my time, but I know I put in more then I'm compensated for, even when I was technically "hourly". I'm fine with that, but I expect to tak…

[deleted]

Re: Why don't tech companies pay their engineers to stay?

#315

Post by GuB-42 » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 9:39 PM UTC

It is something I never understood.

It happened to me, in my previous company, I was clearly underpaid, but the job was fine, people were nice, nothing to complain about except for the pay. Considering the situation, I looked somewhere else, found an offer for a similar job that was about market rate, went back to my company with the proposal and told them to match the offer. I was even ready to accept slightly less, but I didn't get anything, zero, no negotiation possible. I asked to see my boss the next day, he didn't even ask me why, I think I was already written off.

And I am not an isolated case. The worst part is that I am sure they lose money doing that, because when they hire people at the same skill and experience level, they hire at or above market rate. It is very likely that they hired someone to replace me for more than what I asked them.

Usually, everything else being equal, the more people move, the better they get paid.

Re: Why don't tech companies pay their engineers to stay?

#316

Post by ChicagoDave » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 9:42 PM UTC

Finance departments set grids of pay that have varying degrees of complexity. The problem is that they tend to stick to these grids regardless of the impact of net talent loss. The thinking is, the company as a whole is better off sticking to the grid than overpaying any employee.

Re: Why don't tech companies pay their engineers to stay?

#317

Post by ghaff » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 9:42 PM UTC

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #68

frankbreetz wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Another problem is that an employee cannot earn more than his boss, and non-tech managers salaries cap at a certain point. This is only a problem in some places and is made up problem by management. Why can't someone make more then there boss, besides ego?

> Why can't someone make more then there boss, besides ego? I mean, maybe, but I've never seen anyone even propose a solution to ego so that's still a hard blocker.

It's quite common in sales.

Re: Why don't tech companies pay their engineers to stay?

#318

Post by NortySpock » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 9:45 PM UTC

wombatpm wrote: post #303

Thiez wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does a pip effect improved performance when the employee isn't even aware they're in one? Is trying to switch teams the only way to discover that, or are there other indirect ways?

But HR sees it as a way to prevent a subpar employee from escaping the natural HR process. The fact that you have not been informed yet is just a failure of current management to follow process, but does not obsolve you of your subpar performance. HR is there for the company, not for you.

But really, if the only goal is to not be able to shirk a PIP by repeated team-hopping, the PIP should just follow you as you move teams rather than blocking your progress, right?

"Here's Joe Candidate, he applied for your open position, and he has a 3 month old PIP on track to be resolved in 3 months. Accept or decline the transfer to your team?"

Re: Why don't tech companies pay their engineers to stay?

#319

Post by romanhn » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 9:46 PM UTC

paxys wrote: post #107

modeless wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Valuable tech employees at FAANG absolutely make seven figures.

That's a stretch. A staff/senior staff engineer (or equivalent) at FAANG will top out at mid-six figures annually, maybe more than that if there was a lot of stock appreciation since it was granted.

Depends on your definition of valuable, I suppose. Directors and equivalent ICs (L8 / Principal level) or above can and do get over $1M in annual compensation even before appreciation. At F/G anyways.

Re: Why don't tech companies pay their engineers to stay?

#320

Post by MattGaiser » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 9:47 PM UTC

jimsimmons wrote: post #299

SavantIdiot wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point. I would say the confusion is due to my outdated expectations.

I like your view. The thing is people are constantly resume building these days. And that resume is never done. You get a good job? Wouldn’t it be great if you got your name on a couple of cool things in your new place? After that returns start diminishing and people are quick to leverage and move on. I came to CA hoping to find mad coders lost in thought of their projects. All I see are career athletes

The problem is that his view has cost him millions of dollars. Not job hopping is a multi million dollar error his the part of them and their colleagues.