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Companies address labor shortages by pursuing current or former prisoners

theguardian.com

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Re: Companies address labor shortages by pursuing current or former prisoners

#41

Post by netizen-936824 »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #35
echopurity wrote: post #7

A primary purpose of the 13th amendment is the preservation of slave labor through prison.

To call "preservation of slave labor through prison" a "primary purpose" of the 13th amendment is just insane. Sentencing people to hard labor for certain crimes had been done for thousands of years by that point. The prison carve out was a reflection of the fact that the states passing the amendment were interested in getting rid of commercial slavery as it existed in the south, not throwing a wrench into their own…

Wasn't commercial slavery also status quo? Something being status quo is not good reason for it to remain so.

The government version of "slavery for me but not for thee"

Re: Companies address labor shortages by pursuing current or former prisoners

#43

Post by brightstep »

gruez wrote: post #21
relax88 wrote: post #5

The idea that there can be a labour shortage in an industry that does not require specialized skills, at a time in history where capital has more power than ever is a total joke.

>at a time in history where capital has more power than ever is a total joke. If you're talking about the last decade, maybe. In the current month/year? No, because the government is currently paying people to stay at home at rates competitive to employment[1]. With that taken into account labor's power is arguably stronger than ever. [1] The median US hourly wage is $15.35 ( https://www.statista.com/statistics/18533…

> labor's power is arguably stronger than ever

Tell that to the Amazon workers pissing and shitting in bottles.

Re: Companies address labor shortages by pursuing current or former prisoners

#44

Post by danShumway »

tux3 wrote: post #32
pessimizer wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People still can't afford to work jobs that won't pay for their food and shelter. Prisoners, or any other slaves, are a great solution.

Has slavery not been abolished in Northern America? If not, shouldn't slavery be a pretty hot political issue? Wikipedia says things like the death penalty still exists in half of US states, but I don't know the numbers for states using captive workers.

> If not, shouldn't slavery be a pretty hot political issue?

:) You'd think, right?

It's not exactly a niche issue, there are plenty of people talking about it. But once you get fully into the mainstream, the issue seems to just fall off completely. There's a real apathy in America about how our prison system works, and not just apathy on the Right, mainstream Democrats talk about modern-day slavery in prison way less than I would expect them to.

I'm not sure if it's a messaging thing, or if culturally we're just primed not to care. But yeah, America never fully ended slavery, it's still allowed if you've been convicted of a crime.

Re: Companies address labor shortages by pursuing current or former prisoners

#45

Post by anthony_d »

minikites wrote: post #31
mensetmanusman wrote: post #29

If this is done well it is actually a good thing. I have family recently out of prison and the lack of skills to re-enter the work force is sad, it’s almost like it is built to create reoffenders. The more work opportunities the better, just pay them reasonably.

It doesn't work that way: >She noted many private companies that hire prison workers will not employ them after they are released and will not hire job applicants with criminal records. She added that these programs perpetuate mass incarceration.

"She" is one person making an throw away comment. Hardly proof that "It doesn't work that way".

Re: Companies address labor shortages by pursuing current or former prisoners

#46

Post by Ericson2314 »

FooBarBizBazz wrote: post #27

> people currently or formerly in prison First of all, this lumps two groups together. Second, isn't it kind of "good" if employers become more willing to hire people with criminal records? They have a hell of a time finding jobs, which gets in the way of social reintegration. > a Waste Management Services executive discussed hiring immigrants to fill commercial driver’s license positions Oh no! Hiring immigrants ! .…

> First of all, this lumps two groups together.

Absolutely.

> Bannonesque

Yes, but our immigration structure should be fixed so higher skill higher wage immigrants get in first. The way we do immigration now is pretty fucked and makes Bannonesque stuff way less obviously false than it ought to be.

Still, absolutely agree this is a weird headline, and too much mixing of things.

Re: Companies address labor shortages by pursuing current or former prisoners

#47

Post by brightstep »

FooBarBizBazz wrote: post #27

> people currently or formerly in prison First of all, this lumps two groups together. Second, isn't it kind of "good" if employers become more willing to hire people with criminal records? They have a hell of a time finding jobs, which gets in the way of social reintegration. > a Waste Management Services executive discussed hiring immigrants to fill commercial driver’s license positions Oh no! Hiring immigrants ! .…

They're not willing to hire ex-cons for full pay and benefits. These prisoners are essentially slaves, no freedom, no benefits, no time off, barely any pay.

Re: Companies address labor shortages by pursuing current or former prisoners

#48

Post by thescriptkiddie »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #35
echopurity wrote: post #7

A primary purpose of the 13th amendment is the preservation of slave labor through prison.

To call "preservation of slave labor through prison" a "primary purpose" of the 13th amendment is just insane. Sentencing people to hard labor for certain crimes had been done for thousands of years by that point. The prison carve out was a reflection of the fact that the states passing the amendment were interested in getting rid of commercial slavery as it existed in the south, not throwing a wrench into their own…

After the civil war, southern states imprisoned countless former slaves on trumped up charges, many of whom were then rented out to plantation owners.

Re: Companies address labor shortages by pursuing current or former prisoners

#49

Post by gruez »

relax88 wrote: post #33
gruez wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dumping a bunch of a links with no accompanying analysis/commentary makes for a low quality comment.

Read the links. Wage growth has barely moved when adjusted for inflation and this year is hardly different.

It's not exactly clear how that statement relates to my prior comment, but I'll presume you're making the argument that "well if workers actually had any power wages would be going up". My response to that would be: maybe that shows that businesses don't has as much free cash for wage increases as you thought? Otherwise I don't see why businesses would rather miss out on business than pay their employees more. For instance, let's say a business has trouble finding employees at $12/hr, but each employee provides $30/hr of value to the business. If they could afford it, why wouldn't they raise wages to $15, or even $20 an hour? The business would still be making money either way. Maybe the answer is that due to covid (recession, lockdowns), business is down so they can't justify paying each employee $15, because that's close to the value that they provide?

Re: Companies address labor shortages by pursuing current or former prisoners

#50

Post by danShumway »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #35
echopurity wrote: post #7

A primary purpose of the 13th amendment is the preservation of slave labor through prison.

To call "preservation of slave labor through prison" a "primary purpose" of the 13th amendment is just insane. Sentencing people to hard labor for certain crimes had been done for thousands of years by that point. The prison carve out was a reflection of the fact that the states passing the amendment were interested in getting rid of commercial slavery as it existed in the south, not throwing a wrench into their own…

I'm not sure I follow, it sounds to me like you're agreeing with GP.

Slavery overall was status quo. America passed an amendment to end slavery, but added some exceptions to preserve slave labor for criminals, because as you state:

> the states passing the amendment were interested in getting rid of commercial slavery as it existed in the south, not throwing a wrench into their own prison systems

They wanted to end the subset of slavery that was practiced in the South without ending slavery overall.

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