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Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

thehill.com

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Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#31
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not what I said. Please do not put words like that in anyone's mouth.

I don't see how it is not what you said. What point were you trying to make?

He says where violence comes from. It's not justifying violence, it's saying why it exists and what area should be looked in for solution.

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#32

Well, yeah, police was endlessly demonized and underfunded in the past decade. There are a few bad apples, but that doesn't justify group guilt and neglect. Rioters should have never been able to attack Capitol OR government buildings in Seattle/Portland. Not saying that Jan 6 was not a bigger threat to the union of those events, although vast majority of rioters were simple hooligans with no credible plans to gain o…

> demonized

Do you think it may have something to do with a culture where a police officer can put his knee on an unarmed man's throat, hold it there until he dies, write it up as a 'Police responded to a medical emergency, man died on the way to the hospital', and then have their peers close rank around them when the truth gets out?

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree yet am not really confident in that the police can be de-militarized in a country where every minor criminal has a gun and living is segregated in a way so some neighborhoods actually are much more dangerous than others.

The police haven't always been as militarized as they are now. We could easily go back. I think ending the drug war with legalization and decriminalization and ending no-knock warrants without extreme circumstances would go a long way.

I don't understand why "we could go back to the exact framework we had 10 years ago" is a permanent political impossibility. It implies either there are no experiments or no mistakes in the legislative process - both of which are implausible ideas.

On the big ticket stuff it makes some sense, but no example springs to mind where something was tried then just totally rolled back after a few decades.

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#34
post #9

These officers faced BLM hostility on the left, as well as violence against them and accusations of being traitors from the right. The public that they're supposed to serve was spitting on them and demonizing them from both sides. Add a pandemic to the mix, and anybody's mental health would be flatlining. Suicide among some of them is tragic but not surprising. I don't know how effective counseling services are, but…

Some communities have also been disproportionately persecuted by the police for, a very long time. Maybe it's a legacy of slavery and later segregation. Maybe it's a lack of unifying national spirit (the melting pot of cultural assimilation and a desire to be a small spice in a greater whole) which might have just been wishful thinking on the part of history book authors. I suspect most of the non-anarchist who feel…

>Some communities have also been disproportionately persecuted by the police for, a very long time.

The criminal community?

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#35
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The police haven't always been as militarized as they are now. We could easily go back. I think ending the drug war with legalization and decriminalization and ending no-knock warrants without extreme circumstances would go a long way.

I don't understand why "we could go back to the exact framework we had 10 years ago" is a permanent political impossibility. It implies either there are no experiments or no mistakes in the legislative process - both of which are implausible ideas. On the big ticket stuff it makes some sense, but no example springs to mind where something was tried then just totally rolled back after a few decades.

cough Prohibition

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how it is not what you said. What point were you trying to make?

He says where violence comes from. It's not justifying violence, it's saying why it exists and what area should be looked in for solution.

>He says where violence comes from.

They do not in fact. They insinuate that police is arresting blacks as a modern sequel to slavery. That's a complete reversal of cause and effect. Blacks are disproportionally targeted because they're committing criminal acts at disproportionally higher levels compared to every other "marginalized" minority. There's a reason the 13/50 trope exists for blacks and not for Asians.

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#37
post #32

Well, yeah, police was endlessly demonized and underfunded in the past decade. There are a few bad apples, but that doesn't justify group guilt and neglect. Rioters should have never been able to attack Capitol OR government buildings in Seattle/Portland. Not saying that Jan 6 was not a bigger threat to the union of those events, although vast majority of rioters were simple hooligans with no credible plans to gain o…

> demonized Do you think it may have something to do with a culture where a police officer can put his knee on an unarmed man's throat, hold it there until he dies, write it up as a 'Police responded to a medical emergency, man died on the way to the hospital', and then have their peers close rank around them when the truth gets out?

The police will sometimes, in the routine execution of their duty, have to pin someone down. I don't recall any evidence that the murder was intentional. There is an expectation that the police are the sort of people who could kill someone if the need arises. They aren't all going to be philosophers.

Given that and the vitriol around the situation, it is quite reasonable for the police to close ranks around him and look to the most charitable interpretation of what happened. The courts exist to sort out such situations, the police don't need to become vigilantes as well.

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#38
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The police haven't always been as militarized as they are now. We could easily go back. I think ending the drug war with legalization and decriminalization and ending no-knock warrants without extreme circumstances would go a long way.

I don't understand why "we could go back to the exact framework we had 10 years ago" is a permanent political impossibility. It implies either there are no experiments or no mistakes in the legislative process - both of which are implausible ideas. On the big ticket stuff it makes some sense, but no example springs to mind where something was tried then just totally rolled back after a few decades.

As I understand it, rolling back even ten years means substantially more people - including black people - being killed by the police, because this has gone down over time in the US and a substantial amount of work went into achieving this. That is to say, there was no perfect time in the past where this didn't happen, and if people think there was and things have gotten worse they've been lead astray by the news media.

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree yet am not really confident in that the police can be de-militarized in a country where every minor criminal has a gun and living is segregated in a way so some neighborhoods actually are much more dangerous than others.

The police haven't always been as militarized as they are now. We could easily go back. I think ending the drug war with legalization and decriminalization and ending no-knock warrants without extreme circumstances would go a long way.

Go back to which era ? Just asking out of curiosity. AFAIK, gun violence has always been endemic to the USA - and most especially in places where guns are banned. I suspect this will only change with a national ban on Guns. Yet gun traffickers across the border would love that. The American continents have more guns than anywhere else in the world.

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#40
post #9

These officers faced BLM hostility on the left, as well as violence against them and accusations of being traitors from the right. The public that they're supposed to serve was spitting on them and demonizing them from both sides. Add a pandemic to the mix, and anybody's mental health would be flatlining. Suicide among some of them is tragic but not surprising. I don't know how effective counseling services are, but…

Some communities have also been disproportionately persecuted by the police for, a very long time. Maybe it's a legacy of slavery and later segregation. Maybe it's a lack of unifying national spirit (the melting pot of cultural assimilation and a desire to be a small spice in a greater whole) which might have just been wishful thinking on the part of history book authors. I suspect most of the non-anarchist who feel…

> Re-form the Police

Triple their pay, but also enforce strict no-tolerance rules on misbehaviour and select candidates more carefully.

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