SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night • Hacker News Board

Re: SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

#331

Post by midasuni » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 7:34 AM UTC

tablespoon wrote: post #78

gridspy wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the best way to save the planet is to move heavy industry into space. Move our power generation into space and beam it down. Make advanced technologies in space which benefit those on Earth. Move people into real orbital habitats. Make Earth proper a gigantic park / nature reserve. We can't "wait" for anything, or the window during which we can develop space travel will close. 10 or 100 years from now we migh…

> I think the best way to save the planet is to move heavy industry into space. Move our power generation into space and beam it down. Wasn't one of the disasters in Simcity 2000 having your power-beaming space laser miss your power station instead light your city on fire? It seems like such a thing would cause massive hazards. > Move people into real orbital habitats. > Make Earth proper a gigantic park / nature res…

A 1 hectare receiving plant taking in 2kW/square metre won’t be burning any cities, but generate 120MWh continuous base load even with just 25% efficiency.

Dial that up tenfold and I suspect you’ll be fine - especially with the plant in the desert (nothing to burn)

1GWh/y/ha. That’s a 4,000 ha requirement for the US electrical needs, about 10 square miles.

Re: SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

#332

Post by gautamcgoel » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 7:37 AM UTC

cryptonector wrote: post #312

allenrb wrote: post #232

How so many educated, intelligent people seem to think that we (as a species, or even as Americans) are so resource-poor that “space exploration” and “improving the earth” yield an either/or decision absolutely mystifies me. You want to free up resources for either one? Start with global military spending and the financial sector. Both have their place and both have grown far beyond it.

Malthusians exist. They think we're running out of oil, soil and arable land, fresh water, and... just about everything. The logic is that since population growth is exponential, we really could run out of resources. And... that's both totally correct and totally wrong. Totally correct: because yeah, duh, if we had 1 trillion people... Totally wrong: because in fact the arc of evolution of fertility rates, population…

If there were fewer people on Earth, then presumably there would be less deforestation, overfishing, greenhouse emissions, etc. I strongly reject the idea that the Earth can support the current human population at the current levels of consumption and pollution.

Re: SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

#333

Post by fomine3 » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 7:39 AM UTC

jollybean wrote: post #193

throw0101a wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> disrupting sectors like telecom Perhaps the government doesn't like foreigns tapping Canadians' communications? The NSA listens in on its own citizens with the coöperation of the US telcos, so what chance would foreigners have? * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program) As a Canadian I would certainly like more competition, but I can certainly see the reas…

Telecoms are protected sectors in the same way that Banking and Entertainment are, they are strategic industries, and 'wire tapping' while somewhere on the list of issues, is down the list. Canada's position on foreign ownership and trade is fairly consistent with norms in advanced countries, and fairly liberal, probably more so than most nations. Non-market forces also play a huge role in this, for example, irrespec…

There's no import tariff for importing cars in Japan, and regulations aren't special (except Kei cars) but US cars aren't sold well (Except Jeep?). It's just because US cars/brands aren't attractive or not practical in Japan market (or Japan market is not attractive for US makers to invest). German cars are somewhat sold well despite expensive and not more practical (There's no Autobahn, max speed is recently increased 120km/h from 100k in new highway) compared to domestic cars.

Re: SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

#334

Post by irjustin » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 7:44 AM UTC

gengelbro wrote: post #202

darknavi wrote: post #187

Reading some of these comments makes me wonder what it was like when explorers were trying to justify exploring the "New World". Humans have been exploring forever. Why stop now?

I guess you haven't been reading the room lately. In the modern retelling, the explorers that found the "New World" produced only net negatives and we'd have been all much better off had they stayed in western europe.

I find these 'what-ifs' to be only thought-exercises. You'll never truly know if the world is in fact a better place because there's no A/B test, no re-do.

In the end humans are naturally curious, expansionist, greedy (to varying degrees). We've always been this way and so it's only natural for us to continue.

We've been described as a virus before, feels relatively accurate esp if we start planet and system hopping.

Re: SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

#335

Post by pharmakom » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 7:45 AM UTC

jazzyjackson wrote: post #328

pharmakom wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a Malthusian, but I’m very worried about the amount of resources we are using. We already lack the carbon budget and farming capacity for the world’s population to live to the standard of an average US citizen. There might be enough space and enough atoms, but we don’t yet have the capability to direct it into sustainable quality of life for all.

As a cow eating, hot showing, car jamming American, I wouldn’t correlate resource usage with quality of life.

OK it’s not a perfect correlation, but manual labourers on under 1800 calories/day and with no AC would definitely benefit from more resources!

Even a European level of resource usage (roughly half that of US, last I checked) would be hard to achieve for the entire world pop.

Re: SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

#336

Post by vardump » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 7:53 AM UTC

cryptonector wrote: post #312

allenrb wrote: post #232

How so many educated, intelligent people seem to think that we (as a species, or even as Americans) are so resource-poor that “space exploration” and “improving the earth” yield an either/or decision absolutely mystifies me. You want to free up resources for either one? Start with global military spending and the financial sector. Both have their place and both have grown far beyond it.

Malthusians exist. They think we're running out of oil, soil and arable land, fresh water, and... just about everything. The logic is that since population growth is exponential, we really could run out of resources. And... that's both totally correct and totally wrong. Totally correct: because yeah, duh, if we had 1 trillion people... Totally wrong: because in fact the arc of evolution of fertility rates, population…

> Malthusians exist.

As long as the population increases, Malthus is right. There is going to be some ultimate carrying capacity at some point. Ultimate amount of energy we can harness. It's just a question when. Certainly before our energy consumption is enough to literally boil the oceans.

Plug in different growth rates and the answer could range from tens of years to hundreds of millions of years!

Re: SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

#337

Post by Talanes » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 8:08 AM UTC

colordrops wrote: post #266

Talanes wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You said that GP "clearly" intended one thing, yet I've seen you in two other threads with people who did not share your reading of those words. It's fine to state your own reading of what they said and respond in kind, but dictating that your reading is universal when your comment is directly under evidence that it is not is a big leap.

It's basic English dude, let's not complicate it. It's very easy to see what was meant by that, and it's a common sentiment all over the internet that these "space barons" should reallocate their resources towards saving the planet. If you insist on using 3rd party interpretation rather than 1st party intent to decide the meaning of a statement, I've got 16 upvotes on my comments here so others seem to be reading it…

>If you insist on using 3rd party interpretation rather than 1st party intent to decide the meaning of a statement, I've got 16 upvotes on my comments here so others seem to be reading it the same as I

"Argument by upvote" is weak, especially in a forum where I can't actually see your comments vote totals.

Also, you are not the first party, so why do you feel so confident in being able to claim sole interpretation of "1st party intent."

They clearly meant that that space colonization was such a far off goal, that the difference in intensely focusing on it and moderately focusing on it won't cause measurable differences in our lifetime.

Or they didn't, I'm not a mind-reader, but I've given just as much evidence to back up that claim as you have yours.

Re: SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

#338

Post by TheOtherHobbes » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 8:19 AM UTC

cryptonector wrote: post #312

allenrb wrote: post #232

How so many educated, intelligent people seem to think that we (as a species, or even as Americans) are so resource-poor that “space exploration” and “improving the earth” yield an either/or decision absolutely mystifies me. You want to free up resources for either one? Start with global military spending and the financial sector. Both have their place and both have grown far beyond it.

Malthusians exist. They think we're running out of oil, soil and arable land, fresh water, and... just about everything. The logic is that since population growth is exponential, we really could run out of resources. And... that's both totally correct and totally wrong. Totally correct: because yeah, duh, if we had 1 trillion people... Totally wrong: because in fact the arc of evolution of fertility rates, population…

Well, quite.

Climate change also exists. So do resource limits.

Something that doesn't exist is the science of living outside of an existing planetary ecosystem.

Do some research on how much is understood about creating a stable ecosystem out of sand, metal ore, and water. You'll find it's a good approximation to zero.

Flag wavers think it's all about building giant rockets, planting a flag - and boom. Colony! Asteroid mining! Etc!

The reality couldn't be more different. Giant rockets are barely the loading screen. Feeding humans, dealing with waste products without choking on them, growing or synthesising essential nutrients, building systems that do all of this in a stable self-sustaining way - these are all beyond hard.

And that's not even getting into psychology and politics.

So until that changes, running your own planet - the one you got for free, and which was working fine already - as if you're trying to test it to destruction to find out just how stable it really is, is an unbelievably dumb thing to do.

Re: SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

#339

Post by hef19898 » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 8:27 AM UTC

the_duke wrote: post #164

sebzim4500 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elon Musk claims this is all to establish a civilisation on Mars in order to decrease the chance of humanity destroying itself. He might not have an entirely faithful relationship with the truth, but there is really no other rational reason to be so aggressive with the Starship program. SpaceX already does the vast majority of commercial launches using its Falcon 9 rocket, so they don't need to do anything this drast…

There is a very practical reason: Starlink. Launching all those Starlink sats on Falcon 9 must be much more expensive than they would like, and Starship aims to provide a considerably higher payload capacity with much lower cost (if the re-usability plans work out). Apart from that, Musk is great at marketing and sometimes full of crap, but when you listen to some of his converstions it's not hard to believe that the…

I am still not convinced Starlink being really cheaper than ground based fibre.

Exceptions I can think off:

- military application, but they have their solutions

- on high seas, no idea how that works now

- regions maintaining ground stations is risky (war zones and so on)

Maybe I am wrong, but I have the impression Starlink is for SpaceX is what FSD is for Tesla, a way to "raise" money. And that is working. I am just not sure if I like it, since it would mean innovation success depends more on the founders ability to raise money than actual product market fit or profitability.

Re: SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

#340

Post by JumpCrisscross » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 8:38 AM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #322

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Saying that something "could only happen in America" (usually) indicates a view that America is somehow unique (as in the American exceptionalist view). Having had a bit of a ground-level view of this going back over a decade, yes, America is exceptional in this respect. Lots of people tried to do private launch overseas. Trivial barriers like explosives licenses stopped most at the gate. The sole success stories a…

None of that would have happened without Werner von Braun and his crew. And Russia beat the US to space to begin with. Yes, SpaceX could only happen in the United States. But let't not pretend that the whole American package warrants the 'favored and exceptional nation' badge that so many seem to want to bestow on it, which is what this American exceptionalism is all about. Shining city on the hill and more of that k…

> None of that would have happened without Werner von Braun and his crew

One cannot ignore that they did their later work here. Not there. As did many others whose own societies collapsed or otherwise failed them.

In any case, I’m arguing a narrow argument: that a company like SpaceX could only have been founded, when it was founded, in America. Because of its certain characteristics that are an exception in the set of the world’s cultures. (One among many: its unique ability to assimilate and positively appropriate from immigrants.) That doesn’t mean it’s faultless; that’s a straw man.