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SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

arstechnica.com

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Re: SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

#321

Post by garmaine »

throw0101a wrote: post #98
908B64B197 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only in America things like this can happen. A whole industry bootstrapping itself to make semi-conductors doubling every 18 months, going from exotic, mission critical hardware to commodity; SpaceX is doing the same thing with flight hardware. Contrast that with previous generation engines (the RS-25 comes to mind) with a sticker price of 125 millions... per engine! [0] [0] https://spacenews.com/aerojet-rocketdyne-d…

> Only in America things like this can happen. > A whole industry bootstrapping itself to make semi-conductors doubling every 18 months, going from exotic, mission critical hardware to commodity; Silicon Valley did not bootstrap itself. It received untold billions of dollars from the US government during the Cold War (and lots of stuff happened during the WW2 economy, when the US was the Allies' armorer). Do you thin…

> Do you think it a coïncidence that most spy satellites are launched from Vandenberg?

That's the only place you can launch a polar mission over ocean from the continental United States.

Re: SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

#322

Post by jacquesm »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #251
SahAssar wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither, the term refers to the belief that the US is somehow inherently different from other nations, see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism Saying that something "could only happen in America" (usually) indicates a view that America is somehow unique (as in the American exceptionalist view). I'm not saying that America hasn't done great things, or that Americans shouldn't believe they have…

> Saying that something "could only happen in America" (usually) indicates a view that America is somehow unique (as in the American exceptionalist view). Having had a bit of a ground-level view of this going back over a decade, yes, America is exceptional in this respect. Lots of people tried to do private launch overseas. Trivial barriers like explosives licenses stopped most at the gate. The sole success stories a…

None of that would have happened without Werner von Braun and his crew. And Russia beat the US to space to begin with.

Yes, SpaceX could only happen in the United States. But let't not pretend that the whole American package warrants the 'favored and exceptional nation' badge that so many seem to want to bestow on it, which is what this American exceptionalism is all about. Shining city on the hill and more of that kind of crap.

Re: SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

#323

Post by jacquesm »

BatFastard wrote: post #295
kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Russians did a much better job in recent decades The multiple problems with Nauka suggest they've lost their edge and never learned the lessons from docking issues with Progress in the past.

What is Russia good at these days other than illegal industries like hacking? Their extraordinary level of corruption is leading to their demise.

Destabilization of other countries on a shoestring budget.

Re: SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

#324

Post by pharmakom »

cryptonector wrote: post #312
allenrb wrote: post #232

How so many educated, intelligent people seem to think that we (as a species, or even as Americans) are so resource-poor that “space exploration” and “improving the earth” yield an either/or decision absolutely mystifies me. You want to free up resources for either one? Start with global military spending and the financial sector. Both have their place and both have grown far beyond it.

Malthusians exist. They think we're running out of oil, soil and arable land, fresh water, and... just about everything. The logic is that since population growth is exponential, we really could run out of resources. And... that's both totally correct and totally wrong. Totally correct: because yeah, duh, if we had 1 trillion people... Totally wrong: because in fact the arc of evolution of fertility rates, population…

Not a Malthusian, but I’m very worried about the amount of resources we are using. We already lack the carbon budget and farming capacity for the world’s population to live to the standard of an average US citizen. There might be enough space and enough atoms, but we don’t yet have the capability to direct it into sustainable quality of life for all.

Re: SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

#325

Post by midasuni »

h0l0cube wrote: post #304
spfzero wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at the numbers. SpaceX is doing it’s thing for a few billion a year. That’s chump change compared to the money being spent on, let’s say professional basketball. Not picking on basketball it’s my favorite spectator sport. But saying, if you want to find something less worthy than “improving the earth”, you have about a hundred better targets than space exploration.

> SpaceX is doing it’s thing for a few billion a year One can project from SpaceX's launch history that as the commercialization of space intensifies, this figure is going to continue to grow exponentially https://www.spacexstats.xyz/#launchhistory-per-year

Good. Maybe it will eventually reach the amount spent on causing brain damage to teenagers.

Re: SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

#326

Post by hef19898 »

throwthere wrote: post #179
SahAssar wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SpaceX has had very impressive successes, some government programs have failed or run over budget. Some government programs were also impressive, both in the US and abroad. I think we can all agree on those points. The point of the GP that I (and I think many others) react to is the "Only in America things like this can happen" part. I just don't get American exceptionalism I guess.

Do you have some other country in mind that could support a nascent space company?

Russia, the EU, China. Basically every nation or political entity with enough launches to jump start a new launch program. Out of these only the US went with a private new comer. The EU choose to develop a new Ariane launcher, while China went with national program.

Re: SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

#327

Post by midasuni »

bpye wrote: post #188
908B64B197 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both really. Once a location is served by more than one provider, it becomes a commodity (who can sell packets the cheapest).

In many locations, essentially once you get outside of major cities, it is not economical to run more than one line to each property - telecoms often ends up a monopoly, similar to power distribution or water supply. You can lessen the effects by having the physical infrastructure owned by a different entity to the service provided - like in the U.K. with BT Openreach for example, and in that case maybe the service i…

Wireless, satelite, cable in own ducts, fibre through sewer.

There’s multiple ways to deliver ip packets to a property in the country.

A better solution could be to have ducts to run whatever owned by the council and available on a RAND basis - sane way roads are, but it’s not essential for competition.

Re: SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

#328

Post by jazzyjackson »

pharmakom wrote: post #324
cryptonector wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Malthusians exist. They think we're running out of oil, soil and arable land, fresh water, and... just about everything. The logic is that since population growth is exponential, we really could run out of resources. And... that's both totally correct and totally wrong. Totally correct: because yeah, duh, if we had 1 trillion people... Totally wrong: because in fact the arc of evolution of fertility rates, population…

Not a Malthusian, but I’m very worried about the amount of resources we are using. We already lack the carbon budget and farming capacity for the world’s population to live to the standard of an average US citizen. There might be enough space and enough atoms, but we don’t yet have the capability to direct it into sustainable quality of life for all.

As a cow eating, hot showing, car jamming American, I wouldn’t correlate resource usage with quality of life.

Re: SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

#329

Post by Tuna-Fish »

piercebot wrote: post #57
lutorm wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that you could probably build a Merlin out of solid gold and it would come in cheaper than an RS-25, that's not exactly saying much...

Maybe not once you consider the R&D costs of figuring out how not to melt a solid gold Merlin engine ;)

... surprisingly, this is not much of an issue. The key property for keeping a rocket engine from melting is not high melting point, but high thermal conductivity. Because of this, all the parts that touch the hot flame are made from a copper alloy, with a melting point not far from that of pure gold.

In the chamber, the hot gases are >3500K, and touching the inner walls with a melting point at ~1400K, yet the walls don't melt, because they are cooled with more power than they are heated.

Re: SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

#330

Post by h0l0cube »

midasuni wrote: post #325
h0l0cube wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> SpaceX is doing it’s thing for a few billion a year One can project from SpaceX's launch history that as the commercialization of space intensifies, this figure is going to continue to grow exponentially https://www.spacexstats.xyz/#launchhistory-per-year

Good. Maybe it will eventually reach the amount spent on causing brain damage to teenagers.

For the amount of downvotes I received, is this the best rebuttal anybody can come up with?
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