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SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

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Re: SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

#251
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mean you don't understand why American's would think that America has done incredible things, or do you not believe America has done incredible things?

Neither, the term refers to the belief that the US is somehow inherently different from other nations, see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism Saying that something "could only happen in America" (usually) indicates a view that America is somehow unique (as in the American exceptionalist view). I'm not saying that America hasn't done great things, or that Americans shouldn't believe they have…

> Saying that something "could only happen in America" (usually) indicates a view that America is somehow unique (as in the American exceptionalist view).

Having had a bit of a ground-level view of this going back over a decade, yes, America is exceptional in this respect. Lots of people tried to do private launch overseas. Trivial barriers like explosives licenses stopped most at the gate. The sole success stories are in the U.K. (Skyline) and New Zealand (Rocket Lab), with the former stretching the definition of "success." Meanwhile, America has SpaceX, Blue Origin, Virgin Galactic and a trove of others.

The permissiveness and commercial latitude the U.S. government affords Americans is unique. The protections American law and culture afford private property is similarly quite extreme. These facets come with downsides. But in 2001, I can confidently say that had Elon started SpaceX anywhere but in America, it would have dismally failed.

Re: SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They dwarf everything put into space exploration If you want to make it into a discussion about comparing & contrasting impacts, you're going to have to take the collective impacts of those pushing the space-colony agenda: everything from perpetuating individual road transport & UK airline companies to the largest "bookstore" in the world and lots in between. Space exploration is an extremely important and worthy s…

Who looks at a rocket and thinks "Hmm, I bet the engineers could have gone with a more efficient design, but they decided to go with a dick?" Like do people really think that there's better shapes to go with? And if people really believe this, what part of our public education system failed them most? Because my money is on critical thinking.

Well if you're really looking for alternative shapes, one of the Mars fantasists I was alluding to actually went to space recently in a rather flat triangular vehicle. Which is of course completely irrelevant when one is evoking a male ego megaphor and not opening an engineering discussion on aerodynamics. I would have hoped critical thinking could also help with that distinction in topics.

Fwiw, I'm at least glad that single word seems to be the only part of the comment above you found objectionable.

Re: SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sorry but this is false. Toxicity and polluting aspects of Rockets is of a negligible concern, Everyday Astronaut (Youtube fame) gets this so often that he did an entire hour long video on this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4VHfmiwuv4 > Rockets on unplanned trajectories can ruin people's day Well darn.

Hydrazine is highly toxic and Crew Dragon uses a derivative of it.

Neither Crew Dragon, or Hydrazine, is on the rocket in question...

Re: SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Notwithstanding the millions that NASA gave them in their early stages. And the billions spent on the technologies that allow those engines to exist. SpaceX didn't invent rocket engines. It stands on the shoulders of many giants going back through Apollo to the early days. There are even traces of Soviet tech in the raptor (ie closed cycle). Nearly all of that work was funded by taxpayers ... and by whatever funde…

> SpaceX didn't invent rocket engines They kind of did invent full-flow engines though, which were an unattained holy grail of rocketry.

Just ... No. Read the history. At least read Wikipedia.

"Staged combustion (Замкнутая схема) was first proposed by Alexey Isaev in 1949. The first staged combustion engine was the S1.5400 (11D33) used in the Soviet planetary rocket, designed by Melnikov, a former assistant to Isaev.[1] About the same time (1959), Nikolai Kuznetsov began work on the closed cycle engine NK-9 for Korolev's orbital ICBM, GR-1. Kuznetsov later evolved that design into the NK-15 and NK-33 engines for the unsuccessful Lunar N1 rocket. The non-cryogenic N2O4/UDMH engine RD-253 using staged combustion was developed by Valentin Glushko circa 1963 for the Proton rocket."

And way down at the bottom of a long engine list spanning more than half a century...

"Raptor—SpaceX LCH4/LOX engine in development, first flown in 2019[19][20]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staged_combustion_cycle

Re: SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

#255

I'm stunned at the level of "optimism" in these comments. Guys, we're not going to be setting up colonies on Mars, we're not going to setting up heavy industry in space. There is literally no. point. at. all. Mars is less hospitable than even the least hospitable places on Earth. "Heavy" industry, pretty much by definition, means it's way cheaper to do it on Earth than in space (no amount of rocket development will e…

Really confused on why you're critiquing the guy who's commercialized and popularized the electric vehicle (Tesla), setting up a crucial switch away from fossil fuel to save earth, for not saving earth?

What am I missing here?

Re: SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

#256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because there are a lot of other factors that are different. Other countries have different interest rates, tend to have much smaller markets to sell into, and tend to have much more tightly regulated labor markets. There's also an absence of large tech acquirers that exist in the US. VC economics rely on a portfolio theory of a few gigantic winners making up for the other losses. So if different economic conditions…

Your points are true, but I think other factors also play a role. What makes, for example, Australian investors behave differently to American investors? No doubt differences in economy size, regulatory regimes, etc, make a difference. But I also think some of it is due to differences in national culture. People have been talking about "tall poppy syndrome" as an element of Australian culture for decades; people don'…

Certainly investor culture matters a ton. And US is a big place and certainly isn't monolithic. All the stories of early silicon valley speak of a clash with 'East Coast' investors who are viewed as being more conservative on both terms and stages.

It's a little goofy, but I have a personal hunch that the high level of sunlight in Silicon Valley help entrepreneurs there - as building companies is rough so it helps to persevere if it's always bright out.

(Background, I grew up in Boston, moved to Silicon Valley, and have tried to start companies with varying amounts of success.)

Re: SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, uh, why don't we just fix Earth? Oh, that's not sexy? No, of course not, because real problems are always more complicated than simple, inspirational ideas or a colony run by a dictator. Go ahead and start "fixing earth" then, you're free to do so if you think it is "sexy". Meanwhile others will work on launching rockets, a task they seem to be quite adept at. Also, drop the nonsensical references to a "colon…

> Go ahead and start "fixing earth" then, you're free to do so if you think it is "sexy". I don't think it's sexy, at all. It's hard work, but it's also necessary. > "colony run by a dictator" A space colony is a pretty harsh environment. I'd be that it'll tend toward harsh, centralized leadership sooner rather than later, but, you know, maybe I'm wrong on that. In my defense, the things that make democracy possible…

The "fix the Earth before archiving your dreams" fallacy would be way more convincing if Elon wasn't also behind Tesla.

Re: SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

#258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Notwithstanding the millions that NASA gave them in their early stages. And the billions spent on the technologies that allow those engines to exist. SpaceX didn't invent rocket engines. It stands on the shoulders of many giants going back through Apollo to the early days. There are even traces of Soviet tech in the raptor (ie closed cycle). Nearly all of that work was funded by taxpayers ... and by whatever funde…

> SpaceX didn't invent rocket engines They kind of did invent full-flow engines though, which were an unattained holy grail of rocketry.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_Powerhead_Demonstra...

Re: SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telecoms are protected sectors in the same way that Banking and Entertainment are, they are strategic industries, and 'wire tapping' while somewhere on the list of issues, is down the list. Canada's position on foreign ownership and trade is fairly consistent with norms in advanced countries, and fairly liberal, probably more so than most nations. Non-market forces also play a huge role in this, for example, irrespec…

> Entertainment Never understood putting barriers and quota on entertainment (as well as government subsidies). Companies like Disney and Marvel both made billions simply by making content people want to watch. Canada is pretty much free to export its content anywhere and sell it. Why not simply compete?

It's interesting to even fathom that someone would put cultural domain issues entirely within a capitalist context.

There are two fundamental reasons that content everywhere is subsidized and protected. They are of course related.

First, more obviously is the cultural aspect. The things we believe, the stories we tell, are part of our identities. With critical mass and investment those stories some will take root.

It's a little bit of a myth to suggest that a small creative team just 'makes something' and it goes big. This does happen, but generally speaking, it takes a machine. Many layers. 'Taylor Swift' should be thought of as a 'Brand and Production Company' - as opposed to a person.

You'll find that almost all truly creative endeavours are at least partly communitarian. The ballet exists only because Louis XIV, the most powerful man in the Western Hemisphere, personally created it.

Almost all such endeavours have a purely creative component, it's actually more rare than not that those works are purely commercial. The creative world is in constant tension between 'art and money'. You often hear famous movie stars say 'One for Me, One for the Studio' hinting at that.

Some cultures are stronger than others (aka European), and some have more of a critical mass in terms of audience (aka Indonesia), some have both (aka Japan). Some have contiguous histories of relative sovereignty (aka Thailand), some the opposite (aka Laos, Tibet) and so varying levels of support and protection are needed otherwise a lot of it would just evaporate.

Most countries provide fairly significant tax advantages etc. for creative works.

Second, is the fact that creative works on the commercial side, like anything, are an industry with similar kinds of underlying components and critical masses.

In that context it's a little bit glib to say to a group of people in a little region for example to 'compete' with a massive established industrial base. Whatever the industry.

Hollywood is big enough, has several very institutionalized layers of production, incredible degree of hyper-specialization (i.e. you will find more 'kinds of trades' and people who are really good at it there, than anywhere in that field). That includes access to capital, legal frameworks, specialized talent, workers guild specialization, harmonization with government (i.e. getting locations), talent agencies, distribution channels and relationships with Netflix etc..

This extends to the rest of the 'support' aspects of the industry like bookings on talk shows, morning shows, cover placements in magazines, media dockets etc.. It's all professionalized and mostly corporate.

Marvel films, in particular are a really good example of this - they are not particularly good films, but the production quality of them is basically '1st rate' at every turn, from writing, production design, direction, story narrative, the immense production support, post-production / effects, marketing.

Once you add in language and cultural barriers, i.e. the fact that a movie about 'Captain America' will have a strong enough audience domestically, with some acceptance abroad, and you have insurmountable competitive advantage. (Nobody is going to watch a film about 'Captain France', or 'Captain Japan' - or rather, many fewer).

The only other place that can compete really is the UK, which has many of those same foundational advantages, plus a long history of 'popular theatre' and especially the BBC which exists in part as a systematic support / lynch-pin under the auspices relevant to Point #1.

Canada, pound for pound, actually punches above it's weight relative to the US in a lot of production aspects. The new Dune film is Denis Villneuve, and his 'posse' of creatives are from Montreal. In some ways, it's a 'Canadian-led' film, but that just happens to be talent, it's not really part of the industrial base. Villneuve exists because Quebec strongly supports creative endeavours (and FYI for every Villneuve, there are 10 you've not heard of, 50 who never really had support or a shot, and 1000 who tried and failed).

FYI there is actually a lot of film production in Toronto/Van/Montreal, but mostly the 'labour' bits of production, not the choice roles.

The raw economics of entertainment, in the short run, optimize like anything else. Take a 'Large Open Economy' and put it next to 'Small Open Economies' and you'll see consolidation hugely disproportionately in the 'Large' economy, which is where all the talent, surplus, and good jobs end up.

Entertainment happens to be at least one sector, where due to 'Point #1' (i.e. culture), there's wide recognition of the need to support it via non-market forces, so at least there's that. But really the same applies to any sector.

If we really think that we should just all enjoy Marvel and Netflix - and that's that - well then all of that is fine - but it's such a hugely narrow aspect of creative output.

Finally, the true globalization of the industry has seen the biggest budgets move towards ever dumber films. Fast and Furious, Transformers ... they have to appeal not not just to 'working class Americans', but to 'the global working class' which is barely literate, and of course they're from diverse cultures so there's a lot less to draw upon for cultural reference. 'Transformers' , 'Godzilla' etc. are basically giant action sequences and that's it. Of course that's totally fine - but they suck up the budget and attention of other potential works, which don't get made. So ironically, this problem has manifested itself even for the 'Large Open Economy'.

For your reference, here are quotes from a few dozen industry luminaries on that subject [1]. It's a good read.

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/06/20/movies/movie-...

Re: SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

#260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are all good points, but the rest of the world turns out, pound for pound, Engineers that are just as good and crazy. But have access to fewer resources, networks, capital, markets etc.. Also, the % of US immigrants that are on the 'high end' is relatively smaller. Migration to the US, when you include off the books migration, is a little bit towards the low skilled end. But definitely the smaller relative port…

The US offers unlimited resources for pursuit if one is willing to venture after them with resilience. Having said that, it always comes down to passion and willingness of pursuit and this is why many with lesser means can still achieve greatness and even better in a country with the resources available.

" it always comes down to passion and willingness of pursuit"

I think this mostly populist myth.

It's definitely possible for people to do 'great things' but there are innumerable factors beyond that. 'Passion' I would say is not even an important or necessary element.

'Grit' is probably necessary, but not nearly sufficient either.

That anything is possible, doesn't mean that it's remotely likely to happen even with unlimited 'passion and grit', or even talent.

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