Dollar stores make up nearly half of all new store openings in the U.S. • Hacker News Board

Re: Dollar stores make up nearly half of all new store openings in the U.S.

#201

Post by etempleton » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 11:05 PM UTC

jandrewrogers wrote: post #171

safog wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After a couple of levels of indirection, I think the whole argument hinges on one anecdote. It might indicate a general pattern, but no actual authoritative sources back it up. Original Article quotes "growing evidence suggests these stores are not merely a byproduct of economic distress. They’re a cause of it. In small towns and urban neighborhoods alike, dollar stores are triggering the closure of grocery stores, e…

There is a presumption here that "local" grocery stores are an unalloyed good. In my experience, having grown up in these kinds of places, they were often more exploitive and extractive than the national chains. When Walmart rolls into town, many times it breaks a local monopoly that used this fact to its advantage with both customers and employees. A problem in the US is that there are many thousands of communities…

The grocery business is extremely low margin. The independent grocer is increasingly being squeezed. There really is no way for an independent operator in this space to compete head-to-head on price or selection. If the local market allows they can go niche, or high-end and increase prices further while offering better product/ better customer experience, but most markets won’t support such a store.

Re: Dollar stores make up nearly half of all new store openings in the U.S.

#202

Post by lostandbored » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 11:09 PM UTC

jcims wrote: post #146

analyte123 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amusing. My personal experience is that DG is awesome. Before DG in the town I'm familiar with if you wanted to buy basic office or school supplies, basic OTC medical supplies that were not a gas-station 2-pack of aspirin, essentially any cookware, or a better variety of packaged goods than the local mediocre grocery store (like detergent, snacks, juice, sauces) you had to drive over 20 miles. The produce that DG doe…

If there are two underrepresented groups in HN comments its poor folks and people that live in rural communities. This article is just scapegoating 'dollar stores' for scenarios where their growth intersects with environments suffering from incompetent leadership and shitty education as if a) it's the only place these stores exist and b) they are the root cause for the problems being outlined.

Yeah, as someone who grew up (and still is) lower middle class near rural areas, DGs and the like served a niche that would be hard-press to be filled by other companies, national or local.

So I can't really blame a company for taking over a market underserved. They are a symptom of larger changes in the economy and society, that which one SHOULD criticize.

Re: Dollar stores make up nearly half of all new store openings in the U.S.

#203

Post by mikhael28 » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 11:16 PM UTC

Great, more cheap stuff from Asia. Let’s send all of our money to owners and managers of sweatshops and dirty factories. I’m a big fan of globalization in general, but this is such a ‘stop hitting yourself’ moment for me. There has to be a reasonable middle ground between naked free trade and ISI, right?

Re: Dollar stores make up nearly half of all new store openings in the U.S.

#204

Post by mikhael28 » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 11:17 PM UTC

mikhael28 wrote: post #203

Great, more cheap stuff from Asia. Let’s send all of our money to owners and managers of sweatshops and dirty factories. I’m a big fan of globalization in general, but this is such a ‘stop hitting yourself’ moment for me. There has to be a reasonable middle ground between naked free trade and ISI, right?

I’m being a bit facetious, but I’m all fairness - most of the crap sold at these dollar stores are made in less than humane working conditions, or is completely automated generating few jobs and large profits for people preposterously more wealthy than the median income.

Re: Dollar stores make up nearly half of all new store openings in the U.S.

#205

Post by etempleton » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 11:20 PM UTC

lostandbored wrote: post #202

jcims wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there are two underrepresented groups in HN comments its poor folks and people that live in rural communities. This article is just scapegoating 'dollar stores' for scenarios where their growth intersects with environments suffering from incompetent leadership and shitty education as if a) it's the only place these stores exist and b) they are the root cause for the problems being outlined.

Yeah, as someone who grew up (and still is) lower middle class near rural areas, DGs and the like served a niche that would be hard-press to be filled by other companies, national or local. So I can't really blame a company for taking over a market underserved. They are a symptom of larger changes in the economy and society, that which one SHOULD criticize.

Yeah, I don’t think this is the dollar store chain’s fault. They are serving a niche. The problem is that this is such a growing niche, that well, it isn’t really a niche anymore.

The problem is poor and low to middle income folks everywhere in America seem to be getting poorer.

Re: Dollar stores make up nearly half of all new store openings in the U.S.

#206

Post by jrockway » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 11:21 PM UTC

Jach wrote: post #181

analyte123 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amusing. My personal experience is that DG is awesome. Before DG in the town I'm familiar with if you wanted to buy basic office or school supplies, basic OTC medical supplies that were not a gas-station 2-pack of aspirin, essentially any cookware, or a better variety of packaged goods than the local mediocre grocery store (like detergent, snacks, juice, sauces) you had to drive over 20 miles. The produce that DG doe…

Does Amazon refuse to deliver to homes in the town you're familiar with? Doesn't help with produce since not everywhere has same-day Amazon Fresh I guess (and Amazon's isn't very good compared to store alternatives in the Bellevue, WA area), but it hasn't occurred to me to buy basic office/school supplies, OTC medical stuff, or many other things from a store instead of Amazon for a long time.

Amazon tends towards larger quantities, which is what people have trouble affording. I am happy to buy in bulk for things that I use -- as an example I take Zyrtec every day, and buy a 365-count container every year for $15. Dollar stores aren't competing with that, they're for people that can only afford $1 right now, and so they end up with a 14 count container for that. Those people will pay $26 for a year supply, but the important part is that they have $14 right now and are still free of allergies.

That is the problem that people have with dollar stores. They have a cheaper cost of entry, but are more expensive overall. Those of us that aren't living paycheck to paycheck have the liberty of buying things a year in advance to get a better price, and Amazon is great for us. But most of the country isn't doing quite so well.

Re: Dollar stores make up nearly half of all new store openings in the U.S.

#207

Post by mcphage » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 11:22 PM UTC

dcolkitt wrote: post #183

arrosenberg wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really great for them when they leave the store and go back to being citizens of their communities. The dollars they just spent aren't being reinvested by the local owner, they're going to a private equity firm based in New York. That's pretty clearly extractive, rather than being a mutually beneficial relationship.

And that private equity firm is largely made up of capital from pension funds, charitable endowments, and university endowments. Dollars leaving the community is a good thing. Those dollars don’t just go into a black hole. They go to other towns. And some of those towns’ dollars come to our town. That allows all of us to diversity our risk across geographic areas. I’d much rather own a small slice of grocery stores i…

> Dollars leaving the community is a good thing. Those dollars don’t just go into a black hole. They go to other towns.

I really don’t think that’s true.

Re: Dollar stores make up nearly half of all new store openings in the U.S.

#208

Post by tshaddox » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 11:23 PM UTC

imwillofficial wrote: post #188

tshaddox wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's always odd to me to throw Dollar General into the same category as Dollar Tree. Dollar Tree is an actual "dollar store" where literally every item costs $1. Dollar Tree's items are generally no-name discount brands that wouldn't be found in big grocery store chains, or familiar brands in unique very small packages. Dollar General, at least in the two parts of the US I've seen them in (areas of California and the…

Aren’t Dollar Tree and Dollar General owned by the same company?

As far as I can tell, they're not.

Re: Dollar stores make up nearly half of all new store openings in the U.S.

#209

Post by inetknght » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 11:39 PM UTC

thehappypm wrote: post #116

mithr wrote: post #45

Brings to mind Vimes' "'Boots' theory of socioeconomic unfairness", from Terry Pratchett's Discworld: "The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money. Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and…

I know this is fiction, but is it really possible to have boots that last 10 years?

In 2010, I lived in Houston and worked at an ice rink (which are opposite climates especially when walking on the ice -- so theoretically hard on any footware). I bought a pair of boots from Academy which cost $80. Those boots lasted until about 6 months ago when the center of the bottom of the rubber split.

Yes it's absolutely possible for well-built footwear to last a long time.

Re: Dollar stores make up nearly half of all new store openings in the U.S.

#210

Post by pao » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 11:48 PM UTC

I love the "invasive species" analogy, but it's just colorful BS.

> This follows two decades in which Walmart’s super-charged growth left small-town retail in shambles. By building massive, oversized supercenters in larger towns, Walmart found it could attract customers from a wide radius. Smaller towns in the vicinity often suffered the brunt of its impact as their Main Street retailers weakened and, in many cases, closed. > Today the dollar chains are capitalizing on these conditions, much like an invasive species advancing on a compromised ecosystem.

Shouldn't it be harder to open a dollar store now that there's both an independent grocer and a Walmart? Who knows? Without facts, it's just whatever narrative supports the author's worldview.

I do believe in food deserts. But the simpler explanation is that fresh produce is more expensive than processed food, and stores specializing in expensive things don't do well in poor areas.