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Why is China smashing its tech industry?

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Re: Why is China smashing its tech industry?

#301
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which they promptly keep to themselves and utilize to maximally exploit their users time and attention. Technology is a tool, not a generic force for good. Tools are agnostic to human value. If technology is being used exploitatively then it's a problem.

They don't keep it all to themselves, giant technology companies have open sourced things like mapreduce, kubernetes, golang, react, kafka, and more.

How many years did it take for Google to release MapReduce?

Re: Why is China smashing its tech industry?

#302
post #50
post #6

I think it's because they want their best and brightest working on physics, materials, technological breakthroughs, etc., instead of ad tech.

So what happens when non-Chinese software and service tech continues to dominate because China decided it wasn't important? Clearly these sectors are powerful or they wouldn't be targeted. Whats the plan to make them obsolete beyond taking Chinese software down a peg?

It will never dominate in China because of the Great Firewall, and Chinese ad-tech will never dominate abroad for similar reasons.

Re: Why is China smashing its tech industry?

#304
Another potential explanation is China is preparing for a possible cyberwar and after seeing the USA population manipulated by social networking during elections has decided they want their population to be less vulnerable to outside manipulation.

Re: Why is China smashing its tech industry?

#305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Power is an important factor, but to assume it's the only factor is irrational. Think about it like this, China built the biggest high speed rail network in the world and doing such a thing wasn't just about "power" it was done because the regime cares about it's people. Centralized governments aren't automatically evil. Like all people in general, more likely a central power has complicated motivations that span acr…

> Think about it like this, China built the biggest high speed rail network in the world and doing such a thing wasn't just about "power" it was done because the regime cares about it's people. The US built its massive interstate highway system for various reasons, including to enable more rapid movement of military assets in times; to enable rapid evacuation of cities in case of nuclear strikes; to promote better co…

The Hukou system is not designed to punish rural people.

It exists fundamentally to reduce rent-seeking, which is why it exists in some form or another in every economy where there is strong government control of housing. If you remove the Hukou system, everyone will flood to the cities, and you will have overpopulation. You can also liberalize housing, in which case people will pay around 30% of their income in rent which the CCP think is not economically productive. This happened in Beijing and Xi has been floating the idea of literally building another city and moving industries there to reduce rental pressures.

Or you limit migration into the cities to the speed of new constructions, which enables you to set a low rent and, according to the CCP, have better economic outcomes. You limit migration by disincentivizing people who move to the cities without following the quota, hence the Hukou system.

As far as incentivizing Han migration, I can't speak to recent efforts, but for a long time Han migration was incentivized because, well, there weren't much people in Xinjiang and there were a lot of resources and a border with the now-hostile USSR that needed to be exploited. So the CCP under Mao did everything they could to get as many people into Xinjiang. That included allowing Uyghurs to have 3 times as many children as the Han. But otherwise if you need more people into Xinjiang they're not going to be Uyghurs because, well, they're already in Xinjiang.

Re: Why is China smashing its tech industry?

#306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the alliance countries you've listed are also suffering from those exact same problems (climate change, Covid lockdowns, capital flight, demographic crisis, deindustrialization, widespread unrest, a hopeless young generation). And debatably, some of them have much worse on some fronts than China. I do think that every country in this world, whether it be the US, China, or my country, are experiencing the same eff…

Sure some countries have some of the same problems, I don’t disagree. However, the magnitude of the problem is 10x worse for China. Remember that China is still extremely poor - 600M lives on $100/month. And another 500M lives on $1000/month. All this is the party’s doing, and the people won’t forget it. So when things goes bad like it is now for China, it will go really bad for its dictator. Also other countries pro…

The 500M who live on $1k/month is a point of pride for the CCP; it's one of the legitimizers (probably the primary one) for its rule. China from 1980 onwards has produced the largest and most rapid wealth generation process in history.

Now, you can come up with counterfactuals about why it would have happened anyway, and that's a pretty reasonable position to take. But acting like the $1k/month figure is somehow damning of the CCP totally misunderstands the domestic situation in China.

Re: Why is China smashing its tech industry?

#307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “we must recognize the fundamental importance of the real economy… and never deindustrialize.” This is a valid point, and I tend to agree with it. However I see entertainment as part of the "real" economy. It's an incredibly old industry, provides real value to nearly every human being, creates high-, medium-, and low-skilled employment across a wide variety of disciplines, can allow your culture to punch above its…

The real problem is that when the basic infrastructure that maintain the entertainment industry is gone, then the whole thing breaks down in shambles. For example, someday there might be a global shortage of electronics due to geo-political factors, and then you will have no chips to make those fancy consoles and PCs with.

That's the thing about the entertainment industry though. It's been around since the amphitheater was the pinnacle of technology.

Literally all you need to entertain people is talent and a space.

Re: Why is China smashing its tech industry?

#308

China is not "smashing its tech industry". It's cracking down on private Internet companies that acquired too much power through network effects. This is completely consistent with CCP doctrine. Anything that central has to be state-owned. Xi declared this year that while digitization is important, “we must recognize the fundamental importance of the real economy… and never deindustrialize.” Right. China, remember, h…

Wow, it‘s actually public… in hindsight, I should probably not be surprised, but it has the same eery feel to me like when I learned that Hitler had actually written down all of his plans around eradicating Jews and Germanic world dominance in his book „Mein Kampf“ a decade before he put it into reality — it was just that nobody took it seriously since they thought he was a lunatic. Maybe it‘s about time to read the…

Yea Hitler wrote in Mein Kampf that he hated Jews and Communism so it should've been taken very seriously since a person like him(German nationalist and fanatic) became a chancellor. I don't who expected different behavior than what was written in Mein Kampf. Holocaust and WW2 War could've been prevented if Allies(US, UK and France) invaded Germany in 1933-1939 time period. But they expected Hitler to be European shield against Communism and geo-politic partner.

Re: Why is China smashing its tech industry?

#309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the first thing the US should do in the case of a large scale war involving China, is hand Australia nuclear weapons for its self-defense. It would guarantee an extraordinary cost if China were to decide to destroy Australia to try to annex their land for resource extraction. In the coming decades China will have the military capability to invade Australia, given China's rapid naval expansion. It's not a sure thi…

China is never going to attempt to do such a stupid thing as invade Australia thousands of kilometers away for resources. It's much simpler, cheaper and faster to simply import the ores via land from Asia. Which is one of the core reasons for the BRI.

Throughout all of recorded history there has yet to be a superpower or empire that didn't do incredibly stupid things, courtesy of over-estimating its position and power. Modern China will not be an exception. They'll overreach repeatedly just as every other prior great power has.

China considers Australia to be within its primary sphere of influence (a rapidly expanding sphere as far as China is concerned, as they push outward militarily).

Japan was willing to invade Indonesia, Malaysia, Papua New Guinea and Australia during its Empire days. China is a drastically more potent superpower than the Empire of Japan ever was and China's military reach will be far greater.

In an Asia war scenario (which is what we're talking about here), Australia is absolutely on the table to be invaded by China. It's a prime candidate if China's foes attempt an inevitable resource blockade (which would see the BRI targeted early on). Invading Australia also disables a critical, reliable ally for the US side. The US & Co. would need vast regional resource supplies to sustain for long at all in a conflict with China in Asia; China would know that, and would understand that Australia is one of the most important resource suppliers both regionally and globally. At a minimum China would seek to cripple Australia functionally, and an invasion is ideal toward that ultimately (otherwise the Australians would just keep rebuilding and repairing damage).

European empires would never seek to conquer territory in Asia, it's too far away. Britain would never seek to conquer India, it's too far away.

China sends its vast fishing fleets to illegally plunder South American fishing waters. It has blanketed much of Africa for resource extraction purposes. It certainly considers Australia as a resource target within its reach. And it's more than that, China had already fallen into the mindset of considering Australia to be increasingly within its sphere of influence and control, which is why the CCP has gotten so angry at Australia in the recent political-economic conflict between the two. They had plans for Australia and assumed they would be dictating terms going forward.

Re: Why is China smashing its tech industry?

#310
post #67
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's overstating. To be sure some real tech challenges in distributing work horizontally, but I don't think it's created anywhere near the amount of value that's come out of e.g. space race research.

The tech is less visible and more boring but I'm doubtful that this is true: > I don't think it's created anywhere near the amount of value that's come out of e.g. space race The space race gave us a lot of tangible, physics/materials/hard-engineering related tech. Software gives us a lot of internet infrastructure, communications, algorithms, etc. that are incredibly useful for the average consumer. Lots of people i…

vastly overrated compared to focusing on actual tech.
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