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Employers bow to tech workers in hottest job market since the dot-com era

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Re: Employers bow to tech workers in hottest job market since the dot-com era

#571

Post by rejectedandsad »

bestcoder69 wrote: post #550
spike021 wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this true? Since joining Amazon 2 years ago the rate of recruiters hitting my inbox has increased around 3x and I regularly get contacts from Google, Facebook, and MS recruiters, plus recruiters from random small shops in the Bay Area. I suppose you are exaggerating.

These HM's here and there that hate Amazon engineers are just a rounding error compared the number of companies trying to specifically poach Amazon engineers. Despite the sense that Amazon is a lesser-FAANG or whatever to some (so annoying people even think like that - like the snobs who say "lesser Ivy").

I mean they do think Amazon engineers are dumber though. If they didn’t I’d get interviews at Stripe and Pinterest etc

Re: Employers bow to tech workers in hottest job market since the dot-com era

#572

Post by mabbo »

khazhoux wrote: post #243
mabbo wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've actually seen the opposite. I'm at a FAANG, but based in Toronto. For the first time, recruiters are saying to me that yeah, they can do better than that total comp. Often much better. I like my boss and team, but if someone offers me enough money and a fully remote job, well, it's going to be hard to say no.

Always remember: your manager is right now looking for a new job too.

A day later, but I wanted to tell you: this is a really good point, and stuck with me since I read it.

Re: Employers bow to tech workers in hottest job market since the dot-com era

#573

Post by bestcoder69 »

rejectedandsad wrote: post #571
bestcoder69 wrote: post #550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These HM's here and there that hate Amazon engineers are just a rounding error compared the number of companies trying to specifically poach Amazon engineers. Despite the sense that Amazon is a lesser-FAANG or whatever to some (so annoying people even think like that - like the snobs who say "lesser Ivy").

I mean they do think Amazon engineers are dumber though. If they didn’t I’d get interviews at Stripe and Pinterest etc

Sorry but... nicest way I can imagine to put this is that you're generalizing something that might be more of a local phenomenon.

Re: Employers bow to tech workers in hottest job market since the dot-com era

#574

Post by californical »

wdb wrote: post #568
californical wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At a point, probably really soon, you’ll have enough money that you’ll never need to work again. With that type of salary, I’d be surprised if it was more than 2 years. Don’t stay in a job you hate just to earn money that you don’t really need anymore! Though I admit, it’s hard to imagine walking away from 1m per year, even if you don’t necessarily need it...

Yeah, key is to find a job you can add value :) And by my experience if you don't need to work, live gets really boring quickly. All your friends are at work, can only do such travel, if you do your hobby 8/5 a week it gets boring.

Yeah, the plan is to have enough money to do whatever you want, regardless of the pay. So you don’t ever need to work a job you “kinda hate”, and can maybe find a startup or something that you think is good for the world.

I totally get that it would be so dull to do no work for more than a few weeks, ha. I’ve taken a couple months off between jobs before and had plenty to do, though.

Re: Employers bow to tech workers in hottest job market since the dot-com era

#575

Post by conor- »

joe-collins wrote: post #472
robotresearcher wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Get the job and then learn the skill. The value proposition you present is that you can learn stuff. This is not a flippant reply! I’m totally serious.

Can I ask for a reality check, then? I've broadly tech-savvy, and I can do some programming. I taught myself Lua for the sake of making game addons, I've dabbled in Java and Javascript (and tiny bits elsewhere). Most of my projects of note, outside of gaming, are simply little utility scripts for my own curiosities, nothing shared. My career thus far has been a decade of retail, but at least I'm currently in an entry…

Definitely worth trying.

I used a software support role to get a foot in the door of the tech industry without any college degree, then used that was a way to learn whatever I could/display that I know how to code to get into a SWE role. I think the biggest learning curve I faced was learning "enterprise" software development in terms of design patterns, testing, etc. but it's all learnable once you unearth some of the unknown unknowns.

I'd also avoid using wording like "dabbled" because I've found that people are off-put by that and it comes across as selling yourself short, especially without a formal CS background.

Re: Employers bow to tech workers in hottest job market since the dot-com era

#576

Post by epinephrinios »

WalterBright wrote: post #482
dbish wrote: post #4

Even if you think you’re well paid, now is the time to look around. I’ve had a lot of friends, mentees, and coworkers get huge bumps on total compensation even as relatively senior engineers and managers. Pay is jumping and companies aren’t doing a great job keeping that up for their people who have been around for a few years. As an employer, that should be the top worry, keep comp up, don’t lose your people because…

It's interesting reading this thread after the scores (hundreds?) of previous threads saying one cannot negotiate with employers because of power and information asymmetry.

It's the only time the candidate has more power than the employer because the latter showed their hands.

Re: Employers bow to tech workers in hottest job market since the dot-com era

#577

Post by rejectedandsad »

bestcoder69 wrote: post #573
rejectedandsad wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean they do think Amazon engineers are dumber though. If they didn’t I’d get interviews at Stripe and Pinterest etc

Sorry but... nicest way I can imagine to put this is that you're generalizing something that might be more of a local phenomenon.

I've never heard a Googler or FB'er think Amazonians are smart or talented, ever. They look down on people like me.

Re: Employers bow to tech workers in hottest job market since the dot-com era

#578

Post by sativallday »

lilsoso wrote: post #508
sativallday wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Currently making $430K. Upgrading to $720K. That $300K gives me more flexibility, mobility, and choice in just about anything I want to do. Totally removes any financial stressors.

Is this at a FAANG company? Could you advise how you reached that level of compensation? Is grinding hundreds of Leetcode problems necessary?

Fake it til you make it. The game is all about perception/value. If you have a higher perceived value than actual value it plays to your benefit.

You really need to turn around the interview on the interviewer. Best means of accomplishing this is to run through the technical evaluation as quick as possible, then turn the question around in terms of whether it would solve their current problems with what they're working on. It likely won't, so try to identify current problems within the organization/team/project. Dig into those problems and help identify solutions. Question the tradeoffs with the existing system and their current approach.

Just offer solutions.

Re: Employers bow to tech workers in hottest job market since the dot-com era

#579

Post by voidfunc »

aix1 wrote: post #543
voidfunc wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a different strategy, I will happily do one one or two take home exercises (and I'm willing to sink 8-16h into them) but I will tell the recruiter I'm not doing any additional coding on-site (personally I find this high-anxiety, and a crappy way to gauge skill). Happy to chat about all kinds of things, but if someone drops an involved coding question in an interview I'm done and I will walk out and not return…

> if someone drops an involved coding question in an interview I'm done and I will walk out and not return future calls With the greatest respect, the vibe I'm getting is "this person is prone to reacting in a volatile manner when things are not to their liking."

Sure, and this is the internet where tone doesn't translate well. I'd be tactful and courteous about it: I would finish the session, politely decline future interviews on the day and thank them for their time. It's clear we are not a fit for each other at that point.

Re: Employers bow to tech workers in hottest job market since the dot-com era

#580

Post by starky »

giantg2 wrote: post #545
starky wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Evaluating value is usually not straightforward, unless the person was working alone it is always a subjective thing. If a junior is given a project alone, then they may provide zero value to the company if they can't complete it, but if they were paired with a senior, then together they should provide more value than the senior alone. Similarly, a manager's value is more indirect by providing a direction for the tea…

Yeah, but that's kind of my point - it's not easily calculated, so how can we say a senior easily provides an extra $40k. If we are saying the manager can make a lot because they're basically directing 10 people. If you have a security expert on a team of 10 people, should they be worth similar? After all, the tool is likely worthless if it's insecure, making all those efforts by others fruitless. I guess I'm just sk…

Just because it isn't easily calculated on an individual basis doesn't mean that it is impossible to figure out. If you know how much revenue your group provides to the company and then look at who contributes what relatively as a good enough estimate.

Since you bring up a security team, it absolutely can be estimated there as well, what other companies have had hacks and what did it cost them? How does that compare to the risk on your product and the damage to the business if you were compromised?

Not to mention a $40k salary difference means you should be providing multiple times that difference in value to the company. Just providing $40k of additional value is a rounding error for most reasonably sized companies, I've worked on projects where two people provided >$1M of ongoing cost savings per year.

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