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Why is China smashing its tech industry?

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Re: Why is China smashing its tech industry?

#271

Post by walshemj »

Theodores wrote: post #209
majormajor wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “we must recognize the fundamental importance of the real economy… and never deindustrialize.” This hasn't been really put to the test yet, has it? What's the cost of labor delta compared to the places where outsourcing from China would be attractive currently?

In the West the accounting means you can't invest in robots that take years to pay for themselves. It is therefore more profitable to outsource and not have the capital investment on the books. The Germans do it differently and can get a better return investing in themselves. In China they have invested heavily in the robots that make the robots. Sure they are playing catch up in some areas, for instance, chips where…

Not in the experience of Harrods and Burberry in the UK

Re: Why is China smashing its tech industry?

#272

Post by jorblumesea »

volta83 wrote: post #40

> There are certainly those in America who believe that Facebook and Google produce little of value relative to the profit they rake in; maybe China’s leaders, for reasons that will remain forever opaque to us, have simply reached the same conclusion. Arguably, capturing most of your country's top talent with absurd salaries and putting them to work on world-critical challenges like... how to generate more revenue fr…

It might actually have the opposite effect. Working for a highly bureaucratic government run firm might not appeal to many entrepreneurs and engineers. The CCP is not exactly known for ideological flexibility or just outsider thinking in general. Imagine working for the government, and that's the main engineering opportunities you have. Imagine your only opportunities being huge multi year hard engineering projects.

There are many people who enjoy working in fast paced environments or building cutting edge experiences and products.

You could see the US brain drain top Chinese technical talent because the US has diversity of opportunity. There's Space X and Tesla, but also Uber and Google.

Re: Why is China smashing its tech industry?

#273

Post by [deleted] »

nemo44x wrote: post #211
toss1 wrote: post #16

The Western financial elites thought they were exploiting cheap Chinese labor by promoting outsourcing of manufacturing - it would make for far greater profits. Meanwhile the Chinese were exploiting the West's myopic focus on quarterly profits to gain access to and experience in fabricating and designing the top western technology. The scale of this strategic blunder by the Western societies will be considered of his…

> The analysis in this article brings that into focus as well as anything I've yet seen. If the West does not rapidly regain focus on the things that matter -- real manufacturing, engineering, and AI (not consumerist opiates for the masses) -- we are soooo screwed. When China can build a decent airplane then I'll be interested. Until then, they produce/replicate relatively simple tech and for whatever massive scale t…

[deleted]

Re: Why is China smashing its tech industry?

#275

Post by Nbox9 »

papito wrote: post #236

China is "cooling" certain sectors, to spur growth in physical tech and manufacturing. This is where the future power is - not in social networks and ad sales, it's in stuff . Just look at what happens when we can't manufacture our own chips. Car factories halt. Personal computing prices spike. Military tech sputters. China is doing what the U.S. would normally do in an effective anti-monopoly action, if our system w…

> This is where the future power is - not in social networks and ad sales, it's in stuff.]

I strongly disagree. The US was not able to win the Vietnam war with 100x the amount of military stuff. Stuxnet halted Iranian nuclear research. US elections were interfered with by foreign hackers. Microsoft’s revenue is >$100B a year, and it’s mostly software driven.

Information, data, data-analysis, networking and intelligence is where power comes from.

Re: Why is China smashing its tech industry?

#276

Post by vajrabum »

TheDong wrote: post #221
itmayno wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alibaba isn’t just consumer facing internet technologies, look up the vast b2b stuff it does. And other types of companies have been smashed as well like evergrande or Wanda. Also, do you really think innovation will come from state companies? In that case, why didn’t 1980 China or 1980 Russia thrive?

> Also, do you really think innovation will come from state companies? In that case, why didn’t 1980 China or 1980 Russia thrive? You need a stronger argument to prove that state-associated companies can't innovate. There's also plenty of counter examples too. The internet itself was largely created via DARPA, a US state-sponsored research agency. Ditto for the space station and most other space-related achievements…

DARPA doesn't do research or development. They fund it.

Re: Why is China smashing its tech industry?

#277

Post by WalterBright »

mc32 wrote: post #121
WalterBright wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can stream all day and live in fantasyland. I tried that. It soon becomes utterly boring, no matter how good the show is.

It probably depends on inner will and psychological stage of mind. Do you mind being unproductive and such.

Maybe I'm different. Passive entertainment is dull to me. I don't watch other people play sports, I want to play them myself. Traveling and looking at sights rapidly gets very dull.

Re: Why is China smashing its tech industry?

#278

Post by xiaq »

jurmous wrote: post #108
Mizza wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hijacking this comment a bit, but I haven't watched real TV in a very long time but have been tuning in again because of the Olympics and Jeopardy. I'm seeing an incredible amount of ads for companies that let you gamble real money on your phone. Sometimes it's back to back to back to back commercials for online app casinos. This seems really dangerous and a sign of a tragically unhealthy and predatory economy - I ca…

In the Netherlands gambling is either done by the state owned company with all profit going to state treasury or heavily regulated when done online. All to prevent gambling addiction. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holland_Casino It seems harmful to let gambling be unregulated... Even loot boxes in games are illegal https://boundingintocomics.com/2020/10/30/netherlands-rules-...

I lived in Eindhoven for two years and passed by its Holland Casino every week. I never knew it was run by the Dutch state!

There is a Chinese Internet slang "智商税" ("IQ tax"), used to describe products with questionable actual value, like pseudoscience-based health products, luxurious goods with crazy price tags. The idea is that only people with poor judgement would buy such products, and in doing so are being taxed for low IQ.

But a state-run casino... that's a literal IQ tax.

Re: Why is China smashing its tech industry?

#279

Post by swagasaurus-rex »

908B64B197 wrote: post #202
ru552 wrote: post #6

I think it's because they want their best and brightest working on physics, materials, technological breakthroughs, etc., instead of ad tech.

I think a lot of western bright minds would be working on physics, materials, technological breakthroughs if the pay wasn't abysmal and working conditions exploitative.

I know several people that got STEM degrees. One worked for Boeing, moved into progamming at an ad tech company. One had a math degree, got into programming at a real estate firm. One had a physics degree, is now an electrician.

The ridiculously expensive college education can't even prepare us for our own workforce, which has very little demand for engineering, sadly.

Re: Why is China smashing its tech industry?

#280

Post by goodpoint »

mjol wrote: post #28
caeril wrote: post #11

> China may simply see things differently. It’s possible that the Chinese government has decided that the profits of companies like Alibaba and Tencent come more from rents than from actual value added Excellent observation, and I hope, for China's sake, that this is the reason. The United States is likely in for a long-term rude awakening when it finally realizes that an economy predicated on negative-value-add acti…

If you really believe that entertainment doesn't improve the human experience, I feel sorry for you.

There is the occasional bit of entertainment and there is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escapism#Escapist_societies

One thing is watching some dumb action movie once a week, another thing is filling one's free time with entertainment every day.

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