Red delicious apples weren’t always horrible • Hacker News Board

Re: Red delicious apples weren’t always horrible

#141

Post by kook_throwaway » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 7:34 PM UTC

Eric_WVGG wrote: post #48

koolba wrote: post #2

> “It turns out that a lot of the genes that coded for the flavor-producing compounds were on the same chromosomes as the genes for the yellow striped skin,” Traverso explains, “so as you favored the more consistently colored apples, you were essentially disfavoring the same genes that coded for great flavor. This is also why so many cultivars of tomato and cucumber taste like moist cardboard. Once you taste what the…

Nearly nobody under the age of 35 is aware that popcorn used to taste like corn. Not like modern ears of corn, which are bred mostly for sweetness; more like tortilla chips, whose corn is still (somehow) cultivated for corn flavor. Corny. [edit] … also I’m baffled by how, every time I “hold the tomatoes” on my burger or salad, someone will invariably say “don’t you like tomatoes?” and I have to go on this dumb rant a…

I thought I was the weirdo for thinking tomatoes on burgers didn't add any flavor. I love flavorful tomatoes everywhere else, generally, but the kind used on burgers are like mushy water.

Re: Red delicious apples weren’t always horrible

#142

Post by derbOac » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 7:41 PM UTC

jefftk wrote: post #99

Since apples are propagated by grafting (cloning), has anyone kept original ("heirloom"?) Red Delicious stock from before it was optimized for looks? I'd be very curious to try one!

I lived in Iowa for a time not too far from where they were originally from, and the red delicious apples there in local orchards on old trees are probably pretty close to what they were originally like. They're smaller than the prototypical ones you find in the grocery, with a thinner skin, more mottled or striped and round in appearance, and have flavor sort of like mcintosh.

If you know what they are, you'll probably be able to identify the red delicious flavor, mostly in the skin I think. However, my guess is if you gave one to a bunch of people they probably wouldn't recognize them as red delicious apples. They might identify them as mcintosh or something like that.

Re: Red delicious apples weren’t always horrible

#143

Post by crazygringo » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 7:53 PM UTC

leotaku wrote: post #112

koolba wrote: post #2

> “It turns out that a lot of the genes that coded for the flavor-producing compounds were on the same chromosomes as the genes for the yellow striped skin,” Traverso explains, “so as you favored the more consistently colored apples, you were essentially disfavoring the same genes that coded for great flavor. This is also why so many cultivars of tomato and cucumber taste like moist cardboard. Once you taste what the…

Somehow I don't seem to have the same experience as most people in this thread. Sure, homegrown tomatoes and cucumbers taste quite a bit better than what I usually buy at the supermarket, but it certainly isn't perfect vs. inedible. Possible explanations I can think of: 1. My taste perception is just broken because I am relatively young and have been raised on low-quality produce. 2. My local supermarkets just happen…

I think there are two things involved.

First is that some produce really is terrible -- "regular" cheap tomatoes can be utterly flavorless. But on the other hand, a lot of supermarkets stock tomatoes that range from fine to quite excellent, e.g. cherry tomatoes grown in greenhouses sold on the vine.

And second is that people really do exaggerate how great homegrown tomatoes are. There are tomato snobs in the same way there are coffee snobs, whiskey snobs, chocolate snobs, whatever. They insist something is 100x better, when really it's just 1.5x better, because for some reason that's important to them, part of their identity.

Yes, a farmer's-market heirloom tomato is utterly delicious. But store-bought cherry tomatoes on the vine are also super super tasty. Even the ones not on the vine can be really really good. (You can also find really bad ones though, it depends on the store.) I'd go so far as to say they're just different, neither obviously better than the other.

Re: Red delicious apples weren’t always horrible

#144

Post by bonzini » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 7:58 PM UTC

riffraff wrote: post #111

vanderZwan wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess that means you had them in a Mediterranean country, because elsewhere in Europe they still are rather bland in my (northern European) opinion

It's also seasonal, and depending on the provenance (local/imported). I live in Hungary and tomatoes are crap for 10 months a year, when they're generally imported from abroad and are obviously picked up unripe. Then during the summer you can buy tasteful tomatoes for a while, sourced locally. In Italy they're better on average, but you can also find tasteless dutch ones in supermarkets (again, picked up unripe).

Yeah, in Italy you have to buy the local varieties. Non-PDO/PGI (protected designation of origin/protected geographical indication) cherry tomatoes are going to be tasteless (and cheaper).

Re: Red delicious apples weren’t always horrible

#145

Post by dotcommand » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 8:03 PM UTC

That explains why red apples taste horrible but what happened to grapes? I remember when grapes were the dark bluish/blackish concord types and now, the supermarkets mostly carry green and purple grapes which taste awful in comparison.

Re: Red delicious apples weren’t always horrible

#146

Post by adam-a » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 8:04 PM UTC

happymellon wrote: post #131

dathinab wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's like trademark but instead of: "only this company can decide who can use the trademark" It's like: "only if it's production fulfills certain criteria can you use the name" It's made as a consumer protection so that people can not just claim their product is this kind of "traditional" product when it isn't. Except that it's less used like a consumer protection as it's mainly used like a trademark. Controlled by a…

It's a shame that Cheddar doesn't have good protection. Real cheddar is full of flavour, slightly sour. Great stuff. But you can go to places like the US and cheddar is not cheddar and they should not be allowed to call that cheddar.

“Farmhouse cheddar” I believe is the protected term for cheese from Cheddar or nearby.

Re: Red delicious apples weren’t always horrible

#147

Post by robocat » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 8:05 PM UTC

dylan604 wrote: post #140

asdff wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone can grow a pot of heirloom tomatoes outside in the summertime and end up with tomatoes that blow everything at the supermarket out of the water, if you can manage the pests. You can get pretty great produce at certain farmers markets, too.

After shelling out ~$50-$100 for intitial setup, you too can harvest $5 worth of tomatoes! And as you say, if you can keep the pests free, but that also requires for money to add to that inital purchase. The insect/worms/catepillars in my area are more vicious than rodent invasions. If you get catepillars, they can wipe out an entire plant in a day.

> you too can harvest $5 worth of tomatoes

Your attitude is the problem - DONT equate $5 of supermarket tomatoes with an equivalent weight of home grown tomatoes.

I go out of my way to buy “expensive” tomatoes, because I don’t think of good tomatoes as being cheap produce, but more like an expensive vegetable (although price is still seasonal).

Re: Red delicious apples weren’t always horrible

#148

Post by frozenport » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 8:08 PM UTC

mcv wrote: post #71

As a kid, I was a fan of Golden Delicious, while others criticised it for being too mealy. That wasn't my experience, at least at first. Eventually I encountered increasingly mealy Golden "Delicious", and started favouring other apples. Even the cheapest apples here, like Elstar and Jonagold, are pretty good in comparison. I wonder if it's the fate of any breed to eventually be bred for looks instead of taste. If you…

Or just let people taste them in the shop. For example, as free samples.

Re: Red delicious apples weren’t always horrible

#149

Post by dotcommand » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 8:21 PM UTC

jefftk wrote: post #99

Since apples are propagated by grafting (cloning), has anyone kept original ("heirloom"?) Red Delicious stock from before it was optimized for looks? I'd be very curious to try one!

I recently watched a youtube video about why avocados cannot be grown by seed and learned about grafting. Interesting stuff. Didn't know apples also were grown through grafting.

Re: Red delicious apples weren’t always horrible

#150

Post by gowan » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 8:24 PM UTC

mcv wrote: post #71

As a kid, I was a fan of Golden Delicious, while others criticised it for being too mealy. That wasn't my experience, at least at first. Eventually I encountered increasingly mealy Golden "Delicious", and started favouring other apples. Even the cheapest apples here, like Elstar and Jonagold, are pretty good in comparison. I wonder if it's the fate of any breed to eventually be bred for looks instead of taste. If you…

the problem with golden delicious is that you need to eat them within 3 days of when they are picked. a good golden should have a thin skin, be sweet, and crisp.

i think part of the problem is that farmers pick them to early so your usually getting an green golden that has rotted a bit to turn yellow.