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Red delicious apples weren’t always horrible

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Re: Red delicious apples weren’t always horrible

#71

Post by mcv »

As a kid, I was a fan of Golden Delicious, while others criticised it for being too mealy. That wasn't my experience, at least at first. Eventually I encountered increasingly mealy Golden "Delicious", and started favouring other apples. Even the cheapest apples here, like Elstar and Jonagold, are pretty good in comparison.

I wonder if it's the fate of any breed to eventually be bred for looks instead of taste. If you see two apples (or any other fruit or vegetable) of the same name, aren't you more likely to pick the tastier looking one? You can't taste them in the shop, but you can compare by looks. So eventually, that's what they end up being bred for.

I'd expect the only way to protect an apple from that fate, would be to trademark the name, and the rightsholder only licenses the name to apples from cultivars that breed for taste and don't sacrifice taste for looks.

This might be a case where IP rights might be used for good.

Re: Red delicious apples weren’t always horrible

#72

Post by mcv »

ithinkso wrote: post #32

Reinette were always my favorite apples, sort of popular in Poland but nor very 'presentable' [1]. Still, the best imho [1] https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reneta#/media/Plik:Egremont_Ru...

Sounds (and looks) like the Goudreinet, the classic apple for Dutch apple pie.

Re: Red delicious apples weren’t always horrible

#73

Post by geerlingguy »

axguscbklp wrote: post #63
wombatmobile wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in Australia the supermarket apples can be excellent. Tasty, crisp, juicy, sweet/tart, consistently reliable, and beautiful to look at. Do you have Jazz apples? They are the best.

I do not think I have ever seen a Jazz apple here in the states, but I would love to try one.

They usually have them near Gala at both my local grocery store and Walmart in the Midwest. They are good, though often a little more bruised than other varieties.

Re: Red delicious apples weren’t always horrible

#74

Post by titzer »

jareklupinski wrote: post #67
Eric_WVGG wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nearly nobody under the age of 35 is aware that popcorn used to taste like corn. Not like modern ears of corn, which are bred mostly for sweetness; more like tortilla chips, whose corn is still (somehow) cultivated for corn flavor. Corny. [edit] … also I’m baffled by how, every time I “hold the tomatoes” on my burger or salad, someone will invariably say “don’t you like tomatoes?” and I have to go on this dumb rant a…

i too stopped ordering tomatos for this reason some people mentioned looking for places that advertise using heirloom tomatos, but you still have to give them a good pinch of salt would love to join a startup that re-engineers flavor back into commercially-viable crops

Just move to Europe.

Re: Red delicious apples weren’t always horrible

#75

Post by MisterBastahrd »

I had a real sweet tooth as a kid and learned early on that a bruised Red Delicious was a sweeter apple, so I would take some apples from my parents' kitchen and bruise them all over and let them rest for a day. The result was not only sweeter, but more flavorful too.

Re: Red delicious apples weren’t always horrible

#76

Post by ajmurmann »

koyote wrote: post #24

I think it's quite interesting that it's taken so long for a lackluster tasting food to decline in popularity. When I moved to the US from Western Europe, the relative difference in food quality was quite apparent and I distinctly remember noticing this first with the apples: At first I thought I might have chosen a bad batch, but after a couple of more buys I realised that these apples looked 'perfect' but always ta…

I read an article about the creator of the Honey Crisp and Cosmic Crisp. He chose a different licensing model that gives him more control for the Cosmic Crisp because according to him farmers tended to prefer the better looking, red apples which over time negatively impact what trees they'd use and how apples tasted even within the same variety. I'm not sure I understand the argument on a biological level fully, since I thought all apple trees of the same variety are clones, but I trust the leading expert got it right.

If this is true we have some kind of tragedy of the commons within the growers of a specific variety. If the variety is still popular and known for good taste and your apples look the best, you win. Consumers won't pay enough attention to recognize that a given variety from a particular grower now tastes less good.

Re: Red delicious apples weren’t always horrible

#77

Post by exDM69 »

mcv wrote: post #71

As a kid, I was a fan of Golden Delicious, while others criticised it for being too mealy. That wasn't my experience, at least at first. Eventually I encountered increasingly mealy Golden "Delicious", and started favouring other apples. Even the cheapest apples here, like Elstar and Jonagold, are pretty good in comparison. I wonder if it's the fate of any breed to eventually be bred for looks instead of taste. If you…

> I wonder if it's the fate of any breed to eventually be bred for looks instead of taste.

No, fruit trees are predominantly propagated by cloning, by grafting branches into a root stock. This method has been used already in prehistoric times.

New varieties are created by producing seeds, but then they are no longer called the same "breed". There is a big element of luck involved due to cross pollination and only specialized growers practice it.

The issue you mention is common in plants propagated through seeds, such as tomatoes and carrots. Modern tomato varieties are red, big, robust in transport... and tasteless.

Re: Red delicious apples weren’t always horrible

#78

Post by jfengel »

cudgy wrote: post #70
Eric_WVGG wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nearly nobody under the age of 35 is aware that popcorn used to taste like corn. Not like modern ears of corn, which are bred mostly for sweetness; more like tortilla chips, whose corn is still (somehow) cultivated for corn flavor. Corny. [edit] … also I’m baffled by how, every time I “hold the tomatoes” on my burger or salad, someone will invariably say “don’t you like tomatoes?” and I have to go on this dumb rant a…

San marzanos are pretty good … oops I shouldn’t have said that … now the words out and the geneticists are working hard to screw them up too

San Marzanos are origin-protected in Italy, so if you get Italian San Marzano's they're legally limited in ways that promote quality.

Unfortunately, there is a large black market in mis-labeled San Marzanos, so it's not a full guarantee of quality. But it's something that they're at least working on, rather than just giving up.

Re: Red delicious apples weren’t always horrible

#79

Post by wincy »

exDM69 wrote: post #77
mcv wrote: post #71

As a kid, I was a fan of Golden Delicious, while others criticised it for being too mealy. That wasn't my experience, at least at first. Eventually I encountered increasingly mealy Golden "Delicious", and started favouring other apples. Even the cheapest apples here, like Elstar and Jonagold, are pretty good in comparison. I wonder if it's the fate of any breed to eventually be bred for looks instead of taste. If you…

> I wonder if it's the fate of any breed to eventually be bred for looks instead of taste. No, fruit trees are predominantly propagated by cloning, by grafting branches into a root stock. This method has been used already in prehistoric times. New varieties are created by producing seeds, but then they are no longer called the same "breed". There is a big element of luck involved due to cross pollination and only spe…

There’s an interesting planet money podcast about the thousands of trees grown to find the honey crisp apple.

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2015/05/27/410085320/epis...

Re: Red delicious apples weren’t always horrible

#80

Post by klyrs »

mcv wrote: post #71

As a kid, I was a fan of Golden Delicious, while others criticised it for being too mealy. That wasn't my experience, at least at first. Eventually I encountered increasingly mealy Golden "Delicious", and started favouring other apples. Even the cheapest apples here, like Elstar and Jonagold, are pretty good in comparison. I wonder if it's the fate of any breed to eventually be bred for looks instead of taste. If you…

> You can't taste them in the shop, but you can compare by looks.

Actually, you can ask to sample apples. I make pies, and sometimes stores carry unfamiliar varieties, so I do occasionally ask. The kids often don't know that this is okay, so it helps to ask for the Produce manager. They'll grab a knife and cut a slice. Otoh grocery stores rarely carry ugly apples; they go to farm markets, where it's way more normal to ask for a sample

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