Jaipur’s Last Stand • Hacker News Board

Re: Jaipur’s Last Stand

#41

Post by throwaway258 » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 1:53 PM UTC

thedravidian wrote: post #10

vishnugupta wrote: post #6

Fascinating story. This brings fourth how complex a country India is. Before (and even during) the British rule India was a ruled tens of of such princely states each in turn had hundreds of low level feudal lords. While British did unify India in terms of governing it, the people always recognised themselves with the king's region. E.g., Mysore region, Hyderabad kingdom etc., India truly became a single political en…

> I would say only the millennial generation onward do Indian citizens feel they belong to India Most of the people in my state, and a lot of Southern states do not feel that "we belong to India". India seems to expect us to fall to the ground and worship "India's language is Hindi", "India's religion is the Aryan worshipping flavour of Hinduism" and other nonsense, and we decline. We don't belong to anyone other tha…

Speak for yourself buddy. I am a ಕನ್ನಡಿಗ and Indian.

Re: Jaipur’s Last Stand

#42

Post by foolinaround » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 1:53 PM UTC

vishnugupta wrote: post #6

Fascinating story. This brings fourth how complex a country India is. Before (and even during) the British rule India was a ruled tens of of such princely states each in turn had hundreds of low level feudal lords. While British did unify India in terms of governing it, the people always recognised themselves with the king's region. E.g., Mysore region, Hyderabad kingdom etc., India truly became a single political en…

> I would say only the millennial generation onward do Indian citizens feel they belong to India

The Indian govt continues to use the old British policy of different people groups in quelling dissidence still.

Our armed forced divisions are still based on people groups, and if they want to put forces in Kashmir, then they deploy non-native forces, who have less affinity to the local population. This might also explain some of the excesses seen.

Re: Jaipur’s Last Stand

#43

Post by e3bc54b2 » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 1:54 PM UTC

vishnugupta wrote: post #19

phekunde wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of what you said is not true. There were attempts made to unify "India" even before the British came to India. Infact the term "Hindu", "Hindi", "India", "Hindustan" is not Indian in the first place. The words "Hindu", "Hindi" and "Hindustan" were given to the people risiding east of the Indu/Sindhu river by the Persian/Arabic visitors and invaders. And the word "India" was derived from the word "Hindustan" by t…

I am aware of the origin of the words India and Hindu which I find bemusing. > So people visiting/invading the eastern parts of the Indu/Sindhu river were considering the people there as one civilisation if not one country. I conjecture it is natural for foreigners at that time to refer to the land (and hence the people residing there) east of Sindhu river as India/Indians. For them it was just an alien/different reg…

> I highly doubt if a farmer in a village in Kerala would consider a village in Punjab as belonging to his nation.

Data point of one (and social circle of one), but this is how I feel, an average citizen coming from tiny village in one part of country. This is how I and everyone around me were raised. We are not rich, we used to be poor, but we never considered Punjab or Bengal or Tamilnadu or Mizoram were anything but my country. I went to college and met people from vast majority of the country and I never felt they were not from my country. Sure the language was different, the cultures were different, we looked a little different but it was never in question that we belonged to a 'different' country.

For the record, I do not come from a privileged background, my family worked hard for multiple generations to get where we are, we are not rich by any measure of the world even today, and Hindi is not my native language. I am proud of what happens to be my native language and speak in it everywhere I can. I do not like the push for Hindi if there ever was one that made a difference, and I like to believe politicians have learned their lesson on that one (besides, having what are effectively two dozen Quebecs in the country actually plays in politicians' favor).

I understand not everyone would think like me or those around me. But even when I hear ramblings about out-of-state migrations and social issues across the country (not a participants, just to get it out there), the question of 'others' not belonging to the same country never enters the discussion.

Re: Jaipur’s Last Stand

#44

Post by jhbadger » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 1:57 PM UTC

vishnugupta wrote: post #6

Fascinating story. This brings fourth how complex a country India is. Before (and even during) the British rule India was a ruled tens of of such princely states each in turn had hundreds of low level feudal lords. While British did unify India in terms of governing it, the people always recognised themselves with the king's region. E.g., Mysore region, Hyderabad kingdom etc., India truly became a single political en…

A lot of countries (even Western ones) were like that. Both unified Germany and Italy were creations of the 19th century. Before that, both were just a collection of small kingdoms/principalities/republics that shared a similar dialect and culture.

Re: Jaipur’s Last Stand

#45

Post by fakedang » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 1:58 PM UTC

tsjq wrote: post #26

vishnugupta wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am aware of the origin of the words India and Hindu which I find bemusing. > So people visiting/invading the eastern parts of the Indu/Sindhu river were considering the people there as one civilisation if not one country. I conjecture it is natural for foreigners at that time to refer to the land (and hence the people residing there) east of Sindhu river as India/Indians. For them it was just an alien/different reg…

> I highly doubt if a farmer in a village in Kerala would consider a village in Punjab as belonging to his nation haha, not even today

I'm from a farming family in Kerala, and I'll refute your statement. We consider ourselves as Indian as the next Punjabi or Gujarat. While the current gang of Gujjus in government are severely testing our patience at all levels, we still consider ourselves as Indian at the end of the day. Perhaps it's because most of Kerala's population is somehow associated with someone who has gone abroad, where the natives don't bother to brush them with separate strokes based on region.

Re: Jaipur’s Last Stand

#46

Post by e3bc54b2 » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 2:02 PM UTC

nondravidian wrote: post #36

truth_ wrote: post #7

Indira Gandhi is being painted in a complete negative light here, and the Princes and Kings and Nawabs are being glorified here. Let me disagree. The Princes, Nawabs, and Kings were all chosen based on birth and birth only and they are flag bearers of a classist society with no chance of upwards mobility . They were proponents of a system which was deeply sexist and castiest. I am very glad that they were gotten rid…

1. They were gotten rid off long before Indira Gandhi came anywhere close to power. What she did do, was legislate the abolition of privy purses. These were part of the agreement that the GoI had with the princes at the time of accession. Indira violated that contract, because she was in power. Her primary sins: 1. Emergency 2. Nationalization of banks, and other leftist causes. 3. Abolition of privy purses.

Hah. When I read about those privy purses I think about the startups dumping venture capital.

The GoI poured money on royals when they were entering 'the market' (governance), and when they had a strong market standing, they pulled a bait and switch, and raised prices (stopped giving out massive discounts, a.la. Uber, WeWork).

Not that I'm complaining, 9/10 royals where horrible people completely disconnected from the general population. Good riddance.

Re: Jaipur’s Last Stand

#47

Post by eklavya » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 2:03 PM UTC

thedravidian wrote: post #10

vishnugupta wrote: post #6

Fascinating story. This brings fourth how complex a country India is. Before (and even during) the British rule India was a ruled tens of of such princely states each in turn had hundreds of low level feudal lords. While British did unify India in terms of governing it, the people always recognised themselves with the king's region. E.g., Mysore region, Hyderabad kingdom etc., India truly became a single political en…

> I would say only the millennial generation onward do Indian citizens feel they belong to India Most of the people in my state, and a lot of Southern states do not feel that "we belong to India". India seems to expect us to fall to the ground and worship "India's language is Hindi", "India's religion is the Aryan worshipping flavour of Hinduism" and other nonsense, and we decline. We don't belong to anyone other tha…

Tall claims by a deranged hater.

There is always some idiot spewing vitriol by bringing up north/west/east/south/up/down. The whole culture of south India IS India. What the fuck are all those Jurassic old temples there for? Built by all South Indian kings. For fucks sake Tamil the language is born of Lord Shiva(North Indian, just kidding) taught to sage Agastya on which this whole hate mongering language movement started by the stupid Aryan/Dravidian theory.

Why I bring up Tamil? Because your username is the stupid movement started to grab power. Is there a South Indian shiva who is different from the North Indian shiva?

What is the Indian culture? What is the South Indian culture? Except the million languages found in India what major difference were there for religious or cultural purposes?

This hate is what leads to the so called Dalit leader take up the name of a rapist Brahmin (Ravan). Haters gonna hate.

Re: Jaipur’s Last Stand

#48

Post by phekunde » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 2:14 PM UTC

vishnugupta wrote: post #19

phekunde wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of what you said is not true. There were attempts made to unify "India" even before the British came to India. Infact the term "Hindu", "Hindi", "India", "Hindustan" is not Indian in the first place. The words "Hindu", "Hindi" and "Hindustan" were given to the people risiding east of the Indu/Sindhu river by the Persian/Arabic visitors and invaders. And the word "India" was derived from the word "Hindustan" by t…

I am aware of the origin of the words India and Hindu which I find bemusing. > So people visiting/invading the eastern parts of the Indu/Sindhu river were considering the people there as one civilisation if not one country. I conjecture it is natural for foreigners at that time to refer to the land (and hence the people residing there) east of Sindhu river as India/Indians. For them it was just an alien/different reg…

> One thing to note is that Indian historical records from that period are extremely rare making it all the more difficult. It's a pity that Indians of that didn't write as much as Romans did.

Indians did write at that time. There is literature on all sorts of things from that era. Unfortunately we lost the languages that they were written in. And some of it was destroyed or stolen by invading armies.

Re: Jaipur’s Last Stand

#49

Post by satwick1995 » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 2:22 PM UTC

thedravidian wrote: post #10

vishnugupta wrote: post #6

Fascinating story. This brings fourth how complex a country India is. Before (and even during) the British rule India was a ruled tens of of such princely states each in turn had hundreds of low level feudal lords. While British did unify India in terms of governing it, the people always recognised themselves with the king's region. E.g., Mysore region, Hyderabad kingdom etc., India truly became a single political en…

> I would say only the millennial generation onward do Indian citizens feel they belong to India Most of the people in my state, and a lot of Southern states do not feel that "we belong to India". India seems to expect us to fall to the ground and worship "India's language is Hindi", "India's religion is the Aryan worshipping flavour of Hinduism" and other nonsense, and we decline. We don't belong to anyone other tha…

Yet another problem arising due to complete, non-opposed belief in AIT.

Re: Jaipur’s Last Stand

#50

Post by foolinaround » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 2:22 PM UTC

jhbadger wrote: post #44

vishnugupta wrote: post #6

Fascinating story. This brings fourth how complex a country India is. Before (and even during) the British rule India was a ruled tens of of such princely states each in turn had hundreds of low level feudal lords. While British did unify India in terms of governing it, the people always recognised themselves with the king's region. E.g., Mysore region, Hyderabad kingdom etc., India truly became a single political en…

A lot of countries (even Western ones) were like that. Both unified Germany and Italy were creations of the 19th century. Before that, both were just a collection of small kingdoms/principalities/republics that shared a similar dialect and culture.

> shared a similar dialect and culture

Culture is similar, but they are often not dialects but entirely different languages in many cases.

the peoples in the different old German and Italian kingdom were not different peoples, they were just split because of different powers, thats not the case here...